It’s not gay because it’s gay

November 5, 2011 in General

So I woke up this morning and realised I was still raging at the fact that Odd future got pulled from the Big Day Out. To re-cap, Calum Bennachie wrote a letter which got people to sign petitions to get Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill Them All banned from playing the festival and now the Odd Future fans are fighting back with a petition of their own. I have a few things I’d like to get off my chest right now though.

I know that OFWGKTA do use the word ‘faggot’ a lot. As a lesbian I understand the fact that the word has so much power. For years we have lived in fear of the power that these words have because let’s face it, back then when you called someone a faggot, everyone thinks they mean that person is gay and when they find out you’re gay, shit gets real! That was back then. The world is much more of an accepting place now. There may be a few people who are still homophobic, just like there are still a few people who are still racist, but the general population, their ways of thinking have changed. I think ‘faggot’ and ‘nigger’ are terms which are similar to each other. Nigger used to be a derogatory term to call the black community and now the meaning of the word has evolved to different things. To some it still means the same thing, some use it as a word to call their friends and others can use it in sentences like “He a broke as niggah!” One of my favourite rappers and producers once said that the black people took the fear out of that word. He said they took the negative power that word had and changed it to something else. I understand that so many fought for our rights and acceptance but what we gotta realise, just like the black community realised, is that the way people thought 50 years ago, or even 10 years ago, is not how people think now. Straight people, gay people, the new generation have transformed these words and disarmed them. Look at the word ‘gay’ for example. It use to mean happy, then it meant homo, now it means gay, or stupid, or boring. The thing is that the hate behind that word is slowly dissolving. Odd Future’s use of words such as faggot and nigger I find does not hate toward either of the communities and they use these words being African American themselves and having a lesbian in the group who she herself do not find their lyrics homophobic.

But that’s not the only issue that’s in play here. They talk about rape and murder and all that jazz. If we are to ban a band that talks about these things then we should ban movies that come into the country which have similar context. Why is everybody taking OFWGKTA’s lyrics so literally? I’m pretty sure that if these are really what they want to do then they should be arrested right now because they talk about raping Taylor Swift and stabbing Bruno Mars. This group write their lyrics like a screen writer or a novelist would. If you have had a chance to read other interviews of the band, they actually say that what they write is what runs through their heads. Tyler the Creator, one of the rappers in Odd Future, once said that he writes about murder because he is interested in serial killers right now. I agree that rape, homophobia and murder are not issues to take lightly but we need to realise that this band are story tellers. If we think they should be banned then I would like to start a petition to ban horror/gore movies, action movies and drama movies that involve rape.

I know many in the community will not agree with what I have to say. In all honesty I was never worried about homophobia when they said Odd Future was coming. Now that they are banned I actually am. The homophobics have now been given ammo to blame the gays for something new and the general public are also getting pretty upset that “the LGBT community got the group banned”. Hip hop music is a complex genre and some people don’t understand it. I find that a lot of the people who complained about Odd Future are not necessarily people who listen to hip hop music therefore I believe they don’t have an understanding of the music genre. To me, a person can quote countless books on the issue they support but it doesn’t mean that you understand both sides of the topic you are talking about. I may not use big words and it is a little hard for me write things academically but for this issue, I understand both sides and I still feel like this was an unnecessary thing to do. BTW, since Odd Future is now doing a solo show and I can’t afford both, I could barely afford Big Day Out before, can someone give me a ticket? lol
It’s not gay because it’s gay


    1. patrick graham says:

      okay if words don’t hurt write a response to this young woman’s video and tell her she is mistaken

      vapid argument really isn’t it , she’s so wrooooonnnggg
      according to you

    2. lesbotron says:

      I never said words dont hurt. I myself have been through the bullying. What I’m trying to say is that think about the context that these words are used for. Its not about the gay population. Neither is it about the blacks or Asians or whites. I just feel we are so scared of the stigma that comes with these words. If there is something we need to teach the youth its that these words are only hurtful if you let it be hurtful.

      • Hamish says:

        I feel disappointed when GLBT ppl go into bat with the ‘words change over time and gay doesn’t mean gay now’ line.
        That and the nigger analogy is just way off. Compare nigger to queer maybe, in a reclaimed for power sorta way sure. But a guy rapping hateful lyrics, using fag
        ‘cos it hurts’ is completely the opposite.

    3. Anna says:

      I’m lesbian and i love ODD FUTURE have people not heard of irony or post modernism? I mean Sid the kid who makes beats for OFWGKTA is lesbian herself…. how the fuck can she be termed homophobic? This is Art if yu dont like it dont watch/listen to it… you have responsibility for yourself.. take it.

    4. Thank you, I’ve been searching for details about this subject matter for ages and yours is the best I have located so far.

    5. tony says:

      If people want to express homophobic opinions that’s one thing. They’re stupoid to do so but if they want to be stupid then that’s their privilege. But let’s not put them on a stage and celebrate them eh? And let’s not shell out public funds to underwrite their activities either

      • Anna says:

        But this isn’t even right? this gig has been cancelled in the name of GLBTC which is not even ACCURATE because a large portion of OFWGKTA fans identify themselves as being GLBT… I myself one of them.. what enrages me is that music I love and respect has been pulled out from a show I already paid money for (to see ODD FUTURE) in the name of a community I am a part of! I mean I’m also a woman and if I took personally every lyric that ‘degrades’ females… then I’d be crying everyday of my life I hear the radio! And largely be left with very few songs to enjoy… I mean Its stupid… people have different tastes in music and art and they should be able to choose who they appreciate.. The BDO is a festival after all… nobody is forced to see a group they don’t like.. they can go to some other stage.. or take a fucking toilet break… I don’t like that a small few can ruin it for many… its a corrupt system, there is no democracy.. there was no dialogue… This is the same bullshit people did with Eminem and Marilyn Manson… Music is a form of Art.. and good music (like Art) tends to be controversial… and there is a transvaluation of wordplay at work in most modern music… Like the word gay, queer, Nigger or Cunt.. faggot too is undergoing a transformation.. words are being disarmed through re appropriation. as a lesbian woman (like Sid the Kid from Odd Future) I believe in a world of free speech and free thought.. if people want to censor then they need to take personal responsibility and censor their own selves… if you don’t like something choose not to witness it. The only backlash I can see coming from this is uninformed people assuming ALL GAY, LESBIAN, BISEXUAL and TRANS-GENDER people HATE ODD FUTURE which is wholly INCORRECT.. and therefore propagating unnecessary drama.

      • Viola says:

        Regret is never reotod in the past . . regret is always reotod in an unsatisfactory present. What is it about your present life that you find unsatisfying? Or are you depressed? Your statements about everybody and nobody indicate a mental processing scheme that is a little off. you might be depressed and need help with that, quite separately from the question of being out or not.Is it possible that you are envious of the women around you who have overcome challenges? I am one of the women you talk about, married to a man before I realized I was gay, and I cry regularly at the years and years of pleasure I lost. Some of the women you are talking to who are so casual about that loss might be using their casualness to mask a very serious pain. Or they might have done their inner work, and be at a point where they really have integrated that experience in a wholesome way. But the point is, to be closeted is an experience of loss and darkness. That’s why you resisted it so ferociously. The words it wasn’t working , which are words I use to describe being straight, cover over years and years and years of alienation and suffering and loss. What is there to be jealous of in my experience of being closeted for so long? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. That was my rocky road and I walked it. Maybe you are looking for your own challenge, but feeling scared about taking it on, so feeling jealous of the challenges of others that really would have been quite easy for you to manage. That could be a kind of convoluted way of both telling yourself what you need to know (i.e., that there’s a challenge you need to take on) and hiding it from yourself at the same time (it’s someone else’s challenge and one that actually would have been quite easy for you to have overcome, as evidenced by your own bravery so far). Maybe you wish that you were someone who had overcome a challenge (that is easy for you).In which case, the relevant question is what challenge are you avoiding right now? Drop the idea that overcoming it is going to be easy. Start engaging it. When you have struggled with your own darkness and prevailed, you will not be jealous of the darkness that others have engaged. You will know what the taste of darkness really is and you will have a sense of yourself as an accomplished person, and when others tell you their stories and seem casual you will know, from your own experience, that the pain others carry is unknowable and that it’s best to focus on your own struggle because that’s the only one you have any hope with. You will be able to offer true compassion to others because you will know the meaning that those casual words of suffering carry. All the comparison stuff is just a way of distracting yourself from the basic point of your own life. Figure out what your challenge is, and take it on as your own. Then one day you too will be able to talk easily about mountains you have overcome. you have to earn it.

    6. OFWGKTA NZ says:

      What the hell??? Why the fuck would you get Odd Future banned!!! There my favorite musicians in the world? Ive been waiting for them to come to new zealand for over a year now. I all ready bought Big Day Out ticket just to see them, you ruined my life. If you dont like them.. good!! Your not the one that has to go to there concert and listen to them DUMBASS. Your just a angry old bitch with no life so you have to ruin other peoples.. I dont have a problem with gay people neither does Odd Future or tyler the creator.. I seriously hope you get hit by a fucking train. FUCK YOU!

      • OFWGKTA NZ says:

        And even if they did hate gay people (Witch they dont) Seriously. What in the world does it have to do with you?? You dont even have to listen to there music.. It makes no sense. You must hate your life so much and be so disgusted with your own existence that you have to try make everyone else angry and hate life like you obviously do. People like you make me sick.. That you just assume you know a group of people that you never have met or had a conversation with so good that you get them banned for hundreds maybe thousands of fans that would of been glad to see Odd Future play at Big Day Out..

        • lesbotron says:

          Dear OFWGKTA NZ if you read the blog correctly you would notice that I also am upset that Odd Future got cancelled.

          Plus with you saying if they did hate gays it has nothing to do with me? It freaking does coz I’m gay myself. When Beanie man was coming I signed that petition because he is openly homophobic. I understood that his words were against gays and encouraged people to hate. Do you know how many people kill themselves for being bullied coz people like beanieman encourage it.

          There’s a difference between odd future and Beanie man. I loveodd future and I’m upset too.

      • Candie says:

        I don’t even know what to say, this made tihgns so much easier!

      • Ilhamnak says:

        Hey, that’s a clever way of tihnknig about it.

    7. Anna says:

      “i believe that marriage isn’t
      between a man & woman
      but between love and love” from “we all try” by Frank Ocean (member of OFWGKTA) so tell me…. is that hateful? is that homophobic?

      • Dotty says:

        Now that’s slbute! Great to hear from you.

      • Marty says:

        You’re the one with the brains here. I’m watcnhig for your posts.

        • Elmander says:

          I think that plpeoe are making a big mistake. It is fine for the church to teach what it wants to its members, but that is where their authority ends. But they do not keep their statutes to themselves, but strive to legally force them on others (California Proposition 8). Many have stated that when a leader speaks it is the same as if the Lord spoke himself. That is a doctrine of the church, but until recently any such pronouncements had to be clarified as the Lord’s revealed word, and if a revelation, had to be ratified by the staining vote or it was not seen as anything other than fine advice and was not binding on the church. In the past few years, such checks set up by the Lord himself in the D&C so that members are certain what they are hearing is a direction from God have been ignored, and actually replaced with ideas like When we have spoken, the thinking is done for you. The doctrine of agency would not allow us to respond that way, but to actually seek divine sanction, or personal revelation, to know of ourselves whether what we have been told is true or not, or is as the Lord would have us live. But we are increasingly ignoring the Lord’s own directions and replacing them with mindless obedience, giving up agency to someone else. People are accepting as revealed truth opinions and incorrect information simply because of who has spoken it. The church has many instances where for decades the ideas of men, not the revealed word of God, was taught as doctrine (blacks and the priesthood, which even McConkie himself stated whether from Brigham Young or himself were the teachings of men, and only now with revelation are we to see this as official doctrine; but for 140 years the prejudices of men were justified using scripture and taught as doctrine). People espouse the PROCLAMATION: THE FAMILY as revelation, when in fact it was a committee effort then legally rendered by a committee of lawyers to make sure that it fit the veiled language the church intended and provided future deniability. It was NEVER presented to the church as a revelation, nor was it ever written as a revelation, but a statement, and the General Authorities were not those on the committe, nor were the leaders who signed it even the ones that oversaw its creation. It may be sound advice, but it is NOT a revelation, and since it did not follow Christ’s own rules of being presented to the church and then ratified or sustained as accepted by his church, it is NOT considered binding revelation. Brother Packer gave his talk, and what is upsetting to plpeoe, aside from the inaccurate and out-right wrong statements, were the implications of watching out for your family and making sure this evil doesn’t affect them. Parents are actually blamed, in church therapy, for causing their children to become gay. That burden is extremely hard to endure. When such parents, or any parents, in the church hear words telling them to make sure their family is not so infected, they will respond as if they are hearing God’s own words, and they will sacrifice the child who is gay for the supposed welfare of the entire family. Other children who commit moral sin as not so publicly denounced. But families are warned against the other, as if by some strange means gayness crept into their families because they were not diligent. And since it crept in, it is their duty to remove it. I believe this is why plpeoe with Affirmation and other Human Rights groups are so upset with the talk. It isn’t just the doctrines but the fact they were presented in a very harsh and ugly way, that the facts stated by Brother Packer were in error (he can believe the world is square if he wants, but if it is proven round, no matter what his position, one need not believe what he says when it is simply factually wrong). To those who say, he spoke as a prophet and we must not ignore his words that is fine to believe if you actually sustain him as prophet. Yet, are his words from God? There is a question with that as they were later edited and many of his harsh statements removed, and his reference to the proclamation:the family as being a revelation removed (the Brethren know full well it was NOT a revelation, and that it has never been presented to the church as one; Packer’s statement was not just factually inaccurate, it was just on the boarder itself of false doctrine). If his words really were of God, why did MAN have to edit them out? Why would God have to chance a thing he says? No matter whom it would offend, if God really spoke, he would follow it with this are my instructions and I will not be moved. But Brother Packer’s talk was modified, corrected, and changed, so because of that fact alone, it is NOT and never has been a revelation, or a statement of the Lord’s will. When members look outside the actual requirements of the Lord himself as to what is a revelation, and start to accept anything stated from the pulpit as revelation, no matter how silly, cruel, or out-right inaccurate it is, then we are in for real problems. True, you may be following the prophet but are you really learning of the Lord yourself? But the outrage is because plpeoe in the church will and always will take what they hear as actual direction. If the leaders portray themselves as willing to be cruel, to speak lies about plpeoe, to encourage mean-spiritedness, the membership soon follows acting the same way and doing the same thing. Gay plpeoe/activitst are not saying the church cannot believe what it will, or that it cannot have its own moral code of conduct, what they are saying is make sure of what you say before you say it, for whatever you say whether by the words directly, or by your tone or implication, the membership will do. If you imply it is good to drive out a gay child to cleanse your family that is what members will do. And then a whole host of gay children will become street urchins, be forced to do anything to survive (including prostitution and drugs) and in some cases actually consider that since they have lost all dear to them (most particularly their families) there is no reason to live and choose suicide. It is easy for an adult, who is secure in himself, to see all this as splitting hairs, but for youth, who are still striving to even understand who they are, it is impossible to work through. They have no point of reference, not past experience to fall back on, no real understanding of what is happening to them, or even why. All they know is the church hates them, they are not acceptable, and when they are told they chose to be that way they are lost and confused, for NO CHILD, NOT ONE chooses to be gay. They do not sit down and decide as a young age that they will like their own gender. It just happens, and as quietly as any heterosexual comes to an awareness of their attraction to plpeoe of the opposite gender. The statements made by Packer are not helpful. They do not give hope. They condemn being gay, when in reality only the sexual acts of homosexuality are officially condemned by the church. Yet, again, because an apostle of the Lord make the statements implying once again that simply being gay, not having gay sex, is a sin and unnatural, those in the church will once again, shift their ideals to match that understanding. The thoughts of themselves are enough to make you unbelievably evil. Why members find all this so hard to understand is beyond me. What hope is there is such a talk to those who really are facing the issue of being gay? It doesn’t fix them. It doesn’t make them straight. It doesn’t even give a set path of things to do that can create a cure. What most members also don’t understand what fuels this outrage is that the church has done many terrible things over the years to gay plpeoe, all stated to be revelation and NONE of which worked. Instantly, most members will say that the gay person didn’t want to change, they were being rebellious. But believe me, until you have endure those things, you know nothing of what you speak. There were the horrid shock therapies where electrodes were fixed to the man’s sex organs, and they were repeatedly shocked while the subject was forced to watch (and many men for the very first time in their lives to do something that even then was beyond offensive to them) both gay and straight porn. Reconcile that fact with the church’s obsession now against pornography. It itself created many porn addicts just by the inspired therapies they used. But what is worse, they didn’t work. The person remained gay. Some men were permanently damaged physically (losing their ability to even have children at some date were they ever to become straight). There have been many many various treatments to cure gays, and ALL OF THEM have failed. These treatments were not endured by rebellious men, but rather those who were really striving to do what they were told the Lord wanted of them. But they all failed. And as each therapy failed, the church quietly abandoned it and replaced it with another that was again the Lord’s will on how to cure gay plpeoe. But I say to the average member, until you have endured that, you are not able to honestly make comment. After decades of fixes all that in the end are proven to be NOT OF GOD, not revelation, and nothing more than the ideas of men wedded to the appearance of something godly, one simply cannot go on any further. Even the church itself came out against bullying after the rally was done. But to force anyone to endure what so many, thousands of gay men (the women were never subjected to such things) have endured, and then when you see your instructions didn’t work to turn the failure back on them the gay person seeking a cure (which is what the church has done every time) is inhuman. These were men who trusted in the words of their prophets, in their ability to learn what to do from God himself. And in the end, God revealed nothing to them. The results are proof it was not of God, for if any therapy was of God, it would have worked, especially for all those who so desperately wanted it to work. Remember, it was not the militant gays, those who didn’t want to change, who didn’t accept the prophets as servants of the Lord who endured all this and who sought to change. It was strong believing faithful men in the church, men totally dedicated to it and its doctrines, men who had received witness of its truthfulness who endured these therapies. And it was the result of such therapies they ultimately lost their faith, so many of them. For NOTHING came from God and no leader spoke anything that was divine in nature. It is this failure that has gotten gay members to the point they are at. They want it all to stop. They want things to get better. And if leaders really do not know the answers (which all past efforts prove they don’t) then get answers and stop teaching ideas of men as doctrines of God. So, you see, even if you think, you active members (as I am) that plpeoe can just leave the church or accept what the prophets of God say as revealed truth in relationship to gays and their struggle, just put yourself in that same place. Imagine your life after enduring all that so many of them have endured, the literal physical tortures, and enduring the blanket rejection of you as a creation of the Devil (and that you actually invited him into your life and that is why you are gay that was in another Packer talk a few years back), and then after spending years enduring all that, tell me that you would accept as truth something you know for a fact to be a lie? I can guarantee that MOST ALL members of the church talk about how they love the conference talks and how they are all from God, then turn around and completely ignore them and ignore all the counsel they have received, and NEVER think twice about how it fits into their lives. They don’t worry about being hearers only of the word, for there is nothing much done or said to them when they do nothing. But when gay plpeoe just admit they have the trial of being gay, suddenly all stops are let loose to either change you, or force you to be silent and celibate, and to pretend you are who you are not, so that the church looks good in the eyes of the world. You are counselled to live a lie, in a church that supposedly embraces integrity. Men who endure therapy are often told to NOT tell the women they eventually decide to marry that they are gay and that they have endured decades of counselling. The reason is that no women would openly marry a gay man. So the men are counselled to simply not mention that for they have repented. Would you as a woman want anyone marrying you who was keeping such a fact about themselves from you? Would you appreciate such a deception? And even though the church says marriage is not to be used as a cure, it is still the goal of their reparative therapies. And many gay men do marry, and many innocent women are then pulled into a nightmare they never could imagine. But this happens because talks do not contain truth. The very idea that gays can change gives the idea to all that they will change. Then, when a gay man marries a woman, and over the passage of time simply cannot go through the facade any longer, it is all his fault. The reality was the couple lived a lie. They were trying to create something out of the impossible. All because they were told they could. But if all that is true, why is it that not one, NOT ONE, General Authority will allow their own daughters/granddaughters to marry cured gay men? They don’t allow it because they know that they cannot be cured, and they don’t want such a headache in their own families. But they think nothing of encouraging you, a believing active member, to sacrifice your daughter on the alter of gays can change. Suicides may have been the moving force behind the current reactions of the gay LDS plpeoe, but it is a combination of all of this I have mentioned, all these facts that most of you in the church are completely ignorant of, these are the reasons for the outrage and the anger over such opinions that within the church itself for over 45 years have been proven false by each and every thing/attempt the church has made to cure gay plpeoe. Yes, it has conned many into getting married thinking they are cured. And in the end, destroyed more families than we can imagine (from a church obsessed with protecting the family), and ruined more testimonies of the gospel, all because life experiences prove the statements in conference, like what Brother Packer made, are simply not true. I do not believe for a moment anyone is stopping anyone from seeing both sides. What they are upset about is that most of those commenting on supporting the church and sustaining its leaders as spokesmen of God are making claims about an issue they really have no clue about, and have no history to look back on as a reference. Gay plpeoe in the church have that history. And while many members can blindly just accept anything they are told, especially in an area of life that doesn’t apply to them (and often have so much to say without any understanding at all), these gay members cannot do that. They have seen time and time again when push comes to shove that what the leaders say is only their own prejudice and has no foundation in truth, and most definitely is not revelation on the matter, for like the scriptures say By their fruits ye shall know them and the fruits of the promises made by leaders ended up being thorns, not blessings, and their advice proved false at every turn. When you, you good active members, have endured that, then tell me how strong your faith would be in the statements of the Brethren. I doubt you would have any faith at all. Yet, so many gay men and women in the church have retained their faith. Now what they want is respect and the lies and false implications about what kind of plpeoe they are to stop. They don’t want to attend church, live the gospel as well as any of you, and have to hide the truth of who they are. They are gay members. They don’t want to have to lie all the time about why they aren’t married. They don’t want to have to sit in silence, as they are required to do under our doctrine of celibacy, and allow you as a congregation to make all sorts of evil and wrong comments about them, for that is exactly what you do when you say all the evil comments you make in classes when you speak evil of gay plpeoe. They want to be loved for who they really are, including that they are gay and very productive members of the church, and not just for the false image you have of them. There is a statement: It is better to be hated for who you are, than loved for who you are not. That is what they want the church to do, be accepting enough that they can be loved as honorable gay plpeoe (as that is what they are), not loved for being good single plpeoe always with watchful eyes looking out for someone to match them with. But talks like Brother Packer’s will never allow such a kindness to develop. It will close the door entirely on any acceptance of anyone gay, even those who are living the gospel more righteously than most of the heterosexual counterparts. And it is that rejection and ejection from the Lord’s kingdom, and from the protections of the US constitution that plpeoe are seeking. They want only what you take for granted to be seen as a full human being.

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    8. patrick graham says:

      your logic is flawed… how is faggot said by this group any different to faggot used as a bullying word.

      really you haven’t thought anything through.
      good on you for accepting heterosexist arguments that there use of faggot is okay because they have a lesbian in their group.

      How can you differentiate between the usage.

      You yourself are beginning to sound like “the gay best friends” bigots like to troll out to justify their hate.

      so if you think that it’s okay for odd future to use these words, you can tell the young woman in that video to “harden up”, cause they are only words…

      • Anna says:

        Clearly this is generational… words have literally changed meaning.. I would be interested in knowing the ages of people discussing this matter.. because it is safe to say an older person will be more emotionally affected by use of words like Faggot or Nigger or Cunt etc than those of us who have literally been raised in a postmodern world and language has (whether you want to accept this or not) changed… faggot itself originally meant kindling sticks/twigs for burning… Cunt was the original Anglo-Saxon word for vagina.. gay too originally had a different meaning just a couple of generations ago to the one we apply it with today… There is nothing flawed in an argument that clearly points out how language changes over time. It does. Have you listened to any of Odd Futures work at all? For instance The Jet age of tomorrow, or Frank Ocean.. I would suggest you start here “we all try” By Frank Ocean (member of OFWGKTA)

        • Lachie says:

          Stereotyping it drives me nuts.We get a lot of jorunalists who just aren’t interested in anything other than confirming their preconceived ideas with some evidence’ even when the evidence doesn’t exist or contradicts what they want to say. Five years after the fact, there are still articles claiming that the number of egg and sperm donors dropped through the floor when the law on anonymity was changed. It didn’t the numbers actually went up. If they’d bothered to check the publicly available stats on the HFEA website they’d know this is a non-story but no, bad news is so much more entertaining.Then, and I hate to say it, there are the articles in women’s mags who want a very specific story about a grieving infertile couple given hope by a donor and how they had suffered for so long but look there was a happy ending. I know this is what they DO and it’s also the kind of story that helps recruit donors, but y’know, it’s not the whole picture.

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        • Tofik says:

          Thank you, Black Enterprise, for your focus on black LGBTs and what this means. I eslpcialey appreciate that you have included this story about the black church and homophobia.Without a doubt, traditional black congregations can be dangerous places for black LGBT people. I would argue that many white congregations are just as homophobic, but that is a different argument for a different day.While I very much appreciate that you spoke with Kenyon Farrow and some other people, I think your story would have been enhanced by a including more about mainline black churches that have committed to full inclusion. For example, I am a member of the Covenant Baptist United Church of Christ in Washington, D.C. where the pastors have, at the cost of loss of a portion of their congregation as well as marginalization and persecution of themselves committed to an providing an inclusive ministry. In fact, they led the clergy in the effort to achieve marriage equality in the District of Columbia. I offer that not as a means of highlighting them but to make the point that there are some black churches that are progressive as it relates to issues of LGBT inclusion. Without a doubt, there are too few and many that are constantly seek cover for their actions. But I think it is a mistake to leave out this part of the story.Again, thank you for your commitment to this issue. I have never subscribed to Black Enterprise in the past, but because of your work on this issue, I plan to subscribe today.

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      • January says:

        This is the perfect way to break down this inforatmoin.

    9. patrick graham says:

      I also invite you to post under this video

      and tell this young man to harden up because faggot doesn’t mean anything bad… oh sorry you can’t because he killed himself after being called faggot and worse on a daily basis

      • Anna says:

        He is a beautiful soul who clearly deserved better. I would never tell him to harden up. I would hug this boy, kiss his forhead and tell him he is perfect exactly as he is.. as the universe had intended him to be. I see he loved Lady Gaga.. I love her too.. I notice he said people where telling him he’d go to hell for being gay.. That there is worse than any hate phrase and its problem lies with organised Religion and the true preachers of hate… God/the universe whatever you perceive it to be, Loves us all.. equally… We are all part of it.. It always gets better.. we were all born this way.

        • Jody says:

          Wow, this is in every rsecpet what I needed to know.

          • Viki says:

            A good many valaulbes you’ve given me.

          • Anneu says:

            I {keep|cling on to|carry on} lntienisg to the {news|reports|newscast|news bulletin|news update|rumor|news broadcast} {speak|talk|lecture} about {getting|receiving} {free|boundless} online grant applications so I have been looking around for the {bes There is perceptibly a lot to identify about this. I consider you made various good points in features also .

        • Mellie says:

          Frankly I think that’s abosluetly good stuff.

    10. Scar says:

      From reading the article and the comments above mine, it is quite clear that people are not aware of Tyler the Creator’s attitude towards lesbian women and the disrepect he shows their identities.

      Tegan and Sara, noted lesbian singer/songwriters called out Odd Future for their language and receieved this response from Tyler:
      “If Tegan and Sara Need Some Hard Dick, Hit Me Up!”

      I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound like someone I’d want to praise for his inclusiveness with regard to gender and sexual minorities.

      • Anna says:

        Yeah they called him out for his language.. what did they expect?.. Like you up there telling me about a fucking hyphen… like it matters… like its breaking your fucking heart… Its condescending, passive-aggressive behaviour that just out and out attracts sarcastic response… I can tell you right now as a lesbian woman I’m not going to let people like YOU antagonise me from your high horse like you are more superior to me because you have invested a great deal of your time researching various forms of feminist theory.. I am LESBIAN, I AM A FEMINIST, AND I LOVE ODD FUTURE.. This does not make me less of a lesbian, or feminist, or woman… than any hating on OFWGKTA it just means we have different opinions, probably different ideologies… and that’s OK with me… Be who you want to be… I do not adhere to YOUR idea of social constructs or YOUR emotional response to them.. Take personal responsibility.. form your own opinion.. I have listened to their entire discography.. have you Scar?

        • Scar says:

          I don’t see why calling someone on their problematic language justifies them invalidating and attacking your sexual identity.
          Perhaps you could explain to me why it’s okay to knee-jerk at people with immature and spiteful comments when they make reasonable and appropriate commentary on the language you use?

          (The comment about the hyphen was purely to educate/inform, by the way; there was zero social commentary or even the slightest indication of how it may or may not affect my ‘heart’)

          I gather from your response that general disagreement is fair reason to attack other people; so I’m guessing you won’t take offence if I were to use deeply homophobic language to refer to your person?
          Or would that be wholly unacceptable?
          (For the record, I don’t think it would be acceptable under ANY circumstances to use slurs to refer to you).

          I also think it is hypocritical to ask me to listen to the collected frothing rantings of Odd Future before I can pass judgement on them, yet you’re happy to pass heavy judgement on me after scanning a couple of pages of my blog – and not reading the entirety of all 120 posts.
          (Ironically, my blog is free, whereas I’m unwilling to part with cash to listen to the collected works of Odd Future, due to not wanting to support their work).

          • Anna says:

            OFWGKTA tracks are all available free too… on Tumblr and this is largely how they came to be known. I wouldn’t make comment on anything I hadn’t researched in depth.. I wouldn’t want to sound uninformed. As for the “If Tegan and Sara Need Some Hard Dick, Hit Me Up!” I dont actually see how that is attacking their sexual identity.. if anything he’s acknowledging they would never have any need for some “hard dick” and therefore not very likely to “hit him up” I took the comment to be a smart ass reactionary way of saying “fuck you.. mind your own business” I also think the comment about the hyphen was actually more to irritate than inform.. as of all the things I said in my comment.. that was the only thing you had to say in response.. just be real about it, it was designed to antagonise. I don’t have any judgement on you or your feminist leanings.. other than mine are obviously different to yours.. and I’m cool with that, are you? Basically I’m saying.. you have your viewpoints on Odd Future and I’m saying you clearly haven’t even delved into Odd Future beyond the works of Tyler the Creator and to be fair he’s not even the most interesting of their members, I was particularly looking forward to seeing Syd the Kid, She is amazing… listen to this… there is nothing hateful in it at all! and here are the lyrics Ohh, ohh-ohh, ohh-ohh-ohh baby
            Ohh, ohh-ohh, ohh-ohh-ohh

            My heart, it’s with you now.
            But do you know how to love me?
            You’re heart it beats for me.
            I’m the only thing you’ve got to hold onto.
            My mind tells me to let you go.
            But my heart said no.

            (Syd & Lux)
            My mind tells me that this is wrong.
            But your love’s too strong.
            And now I’m caught in the middle.
            You took away my flashlight.
            Now I’m walking in the dark.
            Thinking why’d I even stop to think
            That this could be love.
            Is it too late to turn back now?
            Now that I’ve given you my heart.
            Before this whole thing falls apart.
            But could this be love?
            Could this be love?
            Could this be love?
            Could this be love?

            I’m no longer safe when you look my way.
            You’ve become my everything.
            Is this a mistake?
            Baby, when you put with that thing on me.
            I just can’t explain.
            This is a mistake.

            And I hate to be selfish, baby.
            But what about me?
            If you leave you take it all.

            You know I wouldn’t leave you, baby.
            So say you’ll be mine.
            Maybe together we’ll find
            The words that describe love.
            If what we both feel inside is love.

            (Syd & Lux)
            You took away my flashlight.
            Now I’m walking in the dark.
            Thinking why’d I even stop
            To think that this could be love.
            Is it too late to turn back?
            Now that I’ve given you my heart.
            Before this whole thing falls apart.
            But could this be love, love?
            Could this be love?
            Could this be love, love?
            Could this be love? Love, yeah.

            (Syd & Lux)
            Is this in love?
            I’m just riding with you.
            Baby, I hope this never ends.
            Let’s make it last forever.

            Baby, hold on.
            Hold on, baby.

          • Chaz says:

            I was led to believe there was something clever about Odd Future, but his response to those Lesbian artists was so abhorrent it lost them any chance they had of gaining new fans or respect from people. If you are going to respond to someone calling you out on the use of that language, at least have the decency to explain it and make them be the ones who look silly – instead, turning to insults is nothing more than being a bully – not exactly great role model material.

    11. Craig says:

      Lesbotron, I agree with you on this subject for anti-censorship reasons. It’s called ‘media effects theory’, and what it means is that there are more causes than just the alleged effects of media (or in this case, Odd Future’s lyrics) behind antisocial and violent behaviour.

      I think one solution to this would be to have out LGBT rappers and hiphop artists sing about how homophobia and transsphobia poison our lives and how we don’t have to put up with this crap anymore. And diss Odd Future right back!

    12. Chaz says:

      Personally, I have no problem with Odd Future playing a solo gig in Auckland where their fans who know their music can choose to go and see them.

      Big Day Out has all kinds of pop/rock acts and attracts a teen audience (albeit 15+), I don’t think it’s the right place for them to have these kinds of lyrics flying around. As adults, we can appreciate that certain words have different meanings or that it’s some kind of comment on society, but when you’re still in your mid-teens and you may be hearing these words used hatefully towards you at school and then hear them at an event like this on stage – what kind of message does that send?

      I don’t think this is a case of extreme censorship or PC gone mad, banning them from playing in NZ at all would be that.

    13. trushsayer says:

      Next you’ll be asking for any anti-homosexuality religion to be banned.

    14. Craig Young says:

      Incidentally, does anyone remember the LA Zombie case earlier this year during the OutTakes film festival? I seem to remember the Society for Promotion of Community Standards arguing that our freedom of expression should be interfered with in *that* context.

    15. Lotta says:

      No complaints on this end, silmpy a good piece.

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      • Matzel says:

        men are opeserspd by women demanding new kitchens). Women who are separatists (and I don’t want to speak for them all here, but it’s a fair summary) believe that if you have relationships with men under patriarchy, you are colluding with your oppressor, and thus oppressing yourself, because they do not believe non oppressive relationships with men are possible under patriarchy . Now there may be times when colluding with your oppressor brings a short term gain (think of collaborators with the Nazis in occupied France). But separatists don’t believe that there’s a trade off worth making there. To make this decision they have to go against a whole heap of social pressure the other way. For a woman who makes this decision it is NOT a matter of appeasing a wider ideology’. It is a matter of not doing something which she believes will oppress her personally. So it is NOT women editing their behaviour in order to be accepted by the dominant people in their surroundings at all. I do have a friend who lived in lesbian separatist communes in the 70 s because she was a lesbian, but she’s not really that much of a feminist/separatist and all the you can’t have a male pet’ stuff wound her up. It may have been a vaguely valid criticism then, (but note she was still there because she was sexually attracted to women, she wasn’t secretly lusting after men) but the idea that there are masses of heterosexual women rejecting men in 2010 because they’re political lesbians who’ve been brainwashed by feminism is more than faintly ludicrous. Our own dear blog host, (waves to Cath) I believe, is married to a man, though everyone on CiF assumes she’s a dyke. Anyway Nichi Hodgson was arguing that women’s point of view should always be respected. So she’s a big fat hypocrite as well as her other sins. Here’s what I said in reply. Political lesbians, for example, who refuse to sleep with men until rape and male violence against women no longer exists. Such an absolutist approach hardly seems like a choice, when there are plenty of men horrified by the thought of violence against women, and when the end result only seems to exacerbate gender conflict, which ultimately benefits neither men nor women. “So are you saying here, Nichi, that if women decide they don’t want to have sex with men, for whatever reason, that exacerbates gender conflict? That such women should shut up and put out for the good of gender harmony? If women want to abstain from sex with men surely that’s their business, their choice and their bodies. They don’t have any obligation to do anything they don’t want to. I’d suggest anyone who says anything different is endorsing rape. Who’s criticising other women’s choices now? And whether or not woman are oppressing themselves, it STILL doesn’t mean they’re oppressing men.

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