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Author Topic: "Aussie Government should apologise to gays"  (Read 299 times)
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Kiwihouse
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« Reply #15 on: 20 March 2010, 10:14:PM »

Ha Ha you got a long way to catch me honey another birthday in a couple of weeks then Im closer to 70 than 60.
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« Reply #16 on: 20 March 2010, 10:31:PM »

Ha Ha you got a long way to catch me honey another birthday in a couple of weeks then Im closer to 70 than 60.

Hunni, in the gay world, you hit 40 and the rest is just a number.  40 in gay years is like 80 in dog years...Its lots of fun!!!
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« Reply #17 on: 21 March 2010, 03:53:PM »

If Helen Clark apologised to Taranaki Maori (what for this time?), it was no doubt at the request of Taranaki Maori.  Gisborne Maori wanted an apology from the queen for four Maori that were killed during an encounter with James Cook.  Fat chance.  The apology to Australian Aborigines was far from an empty gesture.  A public apology popularises past wrongs and brings about public awareness of them.  


I might agree with that concept if there was a sincere attempt on the part of apologists.  This chestnut puts paid to the popularity surrounding public apologies.....and lets not forget that prize golf ball Tiger fuck anything Woods:

Pope apologises for child sex abuse

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/6959647/pope-apologises-for-child-sex-abuse/

Pope Benedict XVI has apologised for Irish priests' child sex abuse in a letter with far-reaching implications, but victims say it's not enough to address the growing scandal.

The pastoral letter, which came with the sex abuse scandal having spread to several countries, including the Pope's native Germany, also said Irish bishops had "failed" in addressing the problem.

"You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry," the pope said in the long-awaited letter to Irish Catholics to be read in all Irish dioceses, in which he also expressed "shame and remorse".

"I can only share in the dismay and the sense of betrayal that so many of you have experienced."

In the first pastoral letter to address the scandal, the Pope said priests and religious workers guilty of child abuse "must answer" for their crimes "before properly constituted tribunals".

"Openly acknowledge your guilt, submit yourselves to the demands of justice, but do not despair of God's mercy," he said.

In the letter, signed on Friday, the Pope harshly criticised the Irish episcopate in dealing with the allegations.

"You and your predecessors failed, at times grievously, to apply the long-established norms of canon law for the crime of child abuse," he wrote.

The pope, who met victims of abuse during trips to the United States and Australia in 2008, said he was ready to do so again.

"I know that nothing can undo the wrong you have endured. Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated," Benedict said.

The pope told offenders they had "betrayed the trust that was placed in you by young and innocent people" and "forfeited the esteem of the people of Ireland and brought shame and dishonour upon your confreres".

"Together with the immense harm done to victims, great damage has been done to the Church and to the public perception of the priesthood and religious life," he added.

The pope also announced a mission to Irish dioceses affected by sex scandals that would include a review of their conduct.

Despite the letter's remorse and criticism of Irish Catholic officials, victims in Ireland say they deserve more after years of being denied justice.

"Victims were hoping for an acknowledgment of the scurrilous ways in which they have been treated as they attempted to bring their experiences of abuse to the attention of the Church authorities," Maeve Lewis, director of the One in Four victims group, said on Saturday.

John Kelly, of Survivors of Child Abuse and who himself was sexually abused as a boy in the Daingean Catholic care home, told AFP the letter leaves many questions unanswered.

"Is the pope now saying we will have a national inquiry into abuse in all the dioceses?" he said. "In short, the basic question is: are the victims likely to get justice as a result of what the Pope has said?"

In the United States, where child abuse cases involving priests that began to emerge in 2002 led the US Roman Catholic Church to reach multi-million-dollar compensation deals, victims also criticised the letter.

"The Pope offers words when action is so desperately needed," the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) said in a statement.

The head of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, said he hopes the pope's letter will lead to "a great season of rebirth".

Predominantly Catholic Ireland has been shocked by three judicial reports in the last five years revealing ill-treatment, abuse and cruelty by clerics and a cover up of their activities by church authorities.

The latest revelations shook Ireland late last year.

Since the Irish cases emerged, abuse scandals have come to light in the Pope's native Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and Switzerland, among other countries.

The scandal has also inched closer to the pope as the Munich and Freising diocese said recently that he, while archbishop there, approved in 1980 giving Church housing to a priest suspected of child sex abuse while he received "therapy".

Germany's top archbishop said on Saturday the letter should be considered a "warning" to his own country's Catholic Church, while Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn said it addressed the anger that "is not limited to Ireland".
A Dutch church spokesman said on Saturday that at least 1100 allegations of sexual abuse committed by members of the Netherlands' Roman Catholic clergy in the three decades from 1950 have emerged this month.
« Last Edit: 21 March 2010, 04:30:PM by kinda_invisable » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: 21 March 2010, 04:16:PM »

They should all be jailed, and denied absolution for what they have done so that they believe they are going to hell.  A much better punishment than just jail itself.

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« Reply #19 on: 21 March 2010, 04:49:PM »

They should all be jailed, and denied absolution for what they have done so that they believe they are going to hell.  A much better punishment than just jail itself.



You mean like they did to the Gays and Trans make sure it is 50 in a cage measuring 4m x 10 m with one open dunny like they did to us. I will stand for nothing less
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« Reply #20 on: 21 March 2010, 04:54:PM »

You mean like they did to the Gays and Trans make sure it is 50 in a cage measuring 4m x 10 m with one open dunny like they did to us. I will stand for nothing less
Kiwihouse

Those were bad times doll.  Reading about the raids in Wellington in the 60s and being made to parade in front of the night reporters and their cameras, before being manhandled and truncheoned into the black mariahs.  The strange thing is, we can blame governments for something that society condoned and expected from their politicians, but we forget that our mothers and fathers saw nothing wrong in it.  As far as they were concerned we were animals.  Times have changed and apologies are superfluous.  We have more pressing problems within our own community of like minded hoes lessies and trannies.
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Mark Anthony
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« Reply #21 on: 21 March 2010, 05:19:PM »


Pope Benedict XVI has apologised for Irish priests' child sex abuse in a letter with far-reaching implications, but victims say it's not enough to address the growing scandal.


The Vatican apology covers all abuse, not just that which ocurred in Ireland. It would seem that the Vatican is finally going to permit the legal authorities to take whatever action is required to bring the perpetrators to justice. This surely is a welcome shift in Vatican attitudes?

The BBC report includes the strong language used, uncommon in previous attempts at apology.

'Addressing the victims of abuse, the Pope wrote: "You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry."
He continued: "Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated... I openly express the shame and remorse that we all feel." He said those guilty of abuse must "answer before God and properly constituted tribunals for the sinful and criminal actions they have committed".
   
The Pope also criticised inadequate procedures in selecting candidates for the priesthood and "insufficient human, moral, intellectual and spiritual formation in seminaries and novitiates" as factors contributing to the crisis.

He said: "Urgent action is needed to address these factors, which have had such tragic consequences in the lives of victims and their families, and have obscured the light of the Gospel to a degree that not even centuries of persecution succeeded in doing.'


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Prospero
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« Reply #22 on: 21 March 2010, 05:35:PM »

Why now?

Why not 20 years ago?
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« Reply #23 on: 21 March 2010, 05:57:PM »

The Vatican apology covers all abuse, not just that which ocurred in Ireland. It would seem that the Vatican is finally going to permit the legal authorities to take whatever action is required to bring the perpetrators to justice. This surely is a welcome shift in Vatican attitudes?

The BBC report includes the strong language used, uncommon in previous attempts at apology.

'Addressing the victims of abuse, the Pope wrote: "You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry."
He continued: "Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated... I openly express the shame and remorse that we all feel." He said those guilty of abuse must "answer before God and properly constituted tribunals for the sinful and criminal actions they have committed".
   
The Pope also criticised inadequate procedures in selecting candidates for the priesthood and "insufficient human, moral, intellectual and spiritual formation in seminaries and novitiates" as factors contributing to the crisis.

He said: "Urgent action is needed to address these factors, which have had such tragic consequences in the lives of victims and their families, and have obscured the light of the Gospel to a degree that not even centuries of persecution succeeded in doing.'




An apology means fuck all to those who were abused by continual failings in the catholic system, which meant the abusers were moved from parish to parish to abuse again and again when they should have been sent to jail the very first time it started.

Tying to excuse that behaviour is nothing short of that brown liquid that forms at the base of manure heaps.

The church should face up to its failings and turn them all over to the authorities immediately so they can serve their jail sentences, and should absolutely refuse them absolution.

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« Reply #24 on: 21 March 2010, 06:16:PM »

The Vatican apology covers all abuse, not just that which ocurred in Ireland. It would seem that the Vatican is finally going to permit the legal authorities to take whatever action is required to bring the perpetrators to justice. This surely is a welcome shift in Vatican attitudes?

The BBC report includes the strong language used, uncommon in previous attempts at apology.

'Addressing the victims of abuse, the Pope wrote: "You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry."
He continued: "Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated... I openly express the shame and remorse that we all feel." He said those guilty of abuse must "answer before God and properly constituted tribunals for the sinful and criminal actions they have committed".
   
The Pope also criticised inadequate procedures in selecting candidates for the priesthood and "insufficient human, moral, intellectual and spiritual formation in seminaries and novitiates" as factors contributing to the crisis.

He said: "Urgent action is needed to address these factors, which have had such tragic consequences in the lives of victims and their families, and have obscured the light of the Gospel to a degree that not even centuries of persecution succeeded in doing.'




I think Pope Rottweiler said they must submit to justice.  Then he said do not despair of god's mercy.  These are important clues of church process.  Imagine for argument sake, a priest enters the confessional and receives the confessions of another priest.  Suppose the other priest confesses to sex abuse of little boys.  Will the confessor submit his sinner to justice?  Or will he offer absolution in the name of the father, the son, the holy spirit?
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Mark Anthony
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« Reply #25 on: 21 March 2010, 08:10:PM »

Suppose the other priest confesses to sex abuse of little boys.  Will the confessor submit his sinner to justice?  Or will he offer absolution in the name of the father, the son, the holy spirit?

Under such a scenario, absolution would not be granted......the abuser would be advised, in keeping with the papal apology, that only by offering himself up to the authorities and acknowledging his sin would he be granted absolution.

Moral theology is consistent, church officialdom is not and has not been for many years. That is what the Pope is hoping to correct.
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Prospero
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« Reply #26 on: 21 March 2010, 08:11:PM »

Moral theology would be facing justice of society, not god
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« Reply #27 on: 21 March 2010, 08:15:PM »

Under such a scenario, absolution would not be granted......the abuser would be advised, in keeping with the papal apology, that only by offering himself up to the authorities and acknowledging his sin would he be granted absolution.

Moral theology is consistent, church officialdom is not and has not been for many years. That is what the Pope is hoping to correct.

Sorry, what is the moral theology in the confessional rites?
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Mark Anthony
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« Reply #28 on: 21 March 2010, 08:26:PM »

The simplistic and cliched approach to the confessional, as you stated is somewhat dated....the reality however, is not.

Moral theology is an essential part of a priest's training, the ability to understand the content of that which is being confessed and being able to act on it in a reasoned way, taking the law into account, if necessary. It is not simply a matter of using the rosary like an abacus and counting beads..........those days are long gone, and few priests these days actually use the confessional....the face to face confession has been in common practice since Vatican 2 and may well explain why so few people confess any longer. The teaching has changed.

The fact that many priests have little or no real understanding of that particular field of theology does not mean it does not exist, or that it is of no value. 
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« Reply #29 on: 21 March 2010, 08:35:PM »

The simplistic and cliched approach to the confessional, as you stated is somewhat dated....the reality however, is not.

Moral theology is an essential part of a priest's training, the ability to understand the content of that which is being confessed and being able to act on it in a reasoned way, taking the law into account, if necessary. It is not simply a matter of using the rosary like an abacus and counting beads..........those days are long gone, and few priests these days actually use the confessional....the face to face confession has been in common practice since Vatican 2 and may well explain why so few people confess any longer. The teaching has changed.

The fact that many priests have little or no real understanding of that particular field of theology does not mean it does not exist, or that it is of no value. 

Got it. Understood.  I note Rottweiler discussed this a little in his letter relating to VAT II and priestly duties to address 'secular realities' in their spiritual renewals.
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