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15 April 2010, 02:33:AM


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Author Topic: Kiwis hate power  (Read 245 times)
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Ozman
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« on: 07 April 2010, 09:01:AM »

Well that’s the way it feels sometimes

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/3552176/Dam-approval-threat-to-all-rivers

The fricking hysteria is insane.  People don’t want powerlines going across their farms,  people don’t want hydro-electric damns because they will make it hard to kayak and some ducks and eels will have to move, people don’t want thermal plants because of the pollution and they don’t want wind powered turbines because it might spook some horses!

The thing in this article that most annoyed me was this

Quote
Whitewater NZ president Polly Miller said the Mokihinui provided "an incredible experience" for kayakers and rafters.
"It's so wild and untouched," Miller said.
The West Coast did not need more electricity sources, as other approved hydro projects could provide the area with enough power, she said.


Because that seems like a good place to get advice on the future of the NZ power grid, a whitewater rafting company...
« Last Edit: 07 April 2010, 06:56:PM by Ozman » Logged

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The Divine Mistress Potplant
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« Reply #1 on: 07 April 2010, 11:07:AM »

Looks like a good area to conserve the natural wilderness of to me.

Why build power plants on the west coast anyway? That's miles and miles from where the major power demands come from.
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Ozman
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« Reply #2 on: 07 April 2010, 11:12:AM »

– minimal impact on the environment
– minimal impact on the public
- Dams can’t just be put close to cities if there is no appropriate waterways nearby
- The additional power can be sold on to other areas
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DrFeelgood
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« Reply #3 on: 07 April 2010, 11:23:AM »

I see no problem with this. Dams are one of the best ways to generate energy because by and large they're kind to the environment. I think part of the problem is that we think our country is too beautiful, so we won't tarnish our landscape with unsightly windmills or dams. I don't think New Zealand is all that, and I don't see why a dam would be so bad.
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Valens
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« Reply #4 on: 07 April 2010, 11:30:AM »

Wrong actually nuclear power is one of the safest with the least effect on the environment. But am sure they will never let us have it here
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Kaytu
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« Reply #5 on: 07 April 2010, 11:39:AM »

I love how Ozman says
Quote
some ducks and eels will have to move
.  Like they're going to know this is happening and pack their bags?

I like hydro-electric power in general - although I prefer local cables to go underground not close to my house etc.  But if a dam isn't needed in an area now or in the immediate future, why build it?  NZ's main population growth isn't on the West Coast, it's north of the Bombay Hills.  A more efficient source of increasing power supply would be to have more mini stations closer to the areas they are servicing.  For example, wind turbines closer to Auckland.

I favour protecting native flora and fauna where possible and in this case there's no need to plonk a dam in that area.


Green comment on the proposal

Quote
The decision to grant resource consent for an 85m hydro dam on the Mokihinui River is the wrong one, the Green Party said today.

“The Mokihinui is one of the most environmentally significant and biodiverse rivers in the country. Damming it would permanently reverse this,” Green Party Conservation Spokesperson and West Coast MP Kevin Hague said.

The commissioners hearing the consent application today decided to grant consent for Meridian Energy’s proposed hydro dam. The decision was split 2-1.

“If this dam goes ahead, the Mokihinui will permanently lose its environmental and biodiversity value,” Mr Hague said.

“There is no way to mitigate or offset the effect of a dam like the one proposed. Meridian Energy’s own report to suggest ways to do this back in 2008 found that it would be impossible.

“The Mokihinui is home to twelve species of native fish including the chronically endangered long-finned eel. The Mokihinui is one of the few unpolluted and undammed habitats left for the long-finned eel.

“The eel population will be disastrously affected by the dam, which will prevent them from migrating to the sea to breed and returning back to the upper reaches of the river to mature.

“The dam will also drown 330 hectares of native rainforest,” Mr Hague said.

Mr Hague said that although the consent has been granted the dam still needs to obtain DOC concessions to cut down and flood tall rare forest, reduce habitat, and most likely kill threatened species such as whio, kiwi and long-finned eel.

“This Minister of Conservation has some ground to make up over the mining issue,” Mr Hague said.

“I urge her to do the right thing and refuse these concessions when they come up.”

Mr Hague said he could not understand the decision given that a scheme to use polluted water from coal mines on the Stockton Plateau to generate hydro electricity had already been granted consents, meaning there would be no need for further hydro power generation on the West Coast.

“There is nothing to recommend this dam. I urge the Minister of Conservation to act as a good landlord of the public land affected when she gets the chance,” he said.

Mr Hague said in the meantime the Green Party would read the decision to grant the resource consent carefully and consider joining any appeal against it.


« Last Edit: 07 April 2010, 06:20:PM by Kaytu » Logged
Kaytu
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« Reply #6 on: 07 April 2010, 11:41:AM »

Wrong actually nuclear power is one of the safest with the least effect on the environment. But am sure they will never let us have it here

Safe?  In a country with high earthquake risk?  Yeah, right.

And don't forget the issues about how you dispose of the used nuclear material from the reactor - NZ has had enough problems from toxic waste disposal.

Water, wind, solar and tide power are all safer choices but the right location for each is important too.
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Ozman
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« Reply #7 on: 07 April 2010, 11:45:AM »

Mr Hague said he could not understand the decision given that a scheme to use polluted water from coal mines on the Stockton Plateau to generate hydro electricity had already been granted consents, meaning there would be no need for further hydro power generation on the West Coast.


Thanks for that Kaytu, reading that I do now agree, this Dam doesn't make any sense.

Quote
For example, wind turbines closer to Auckland.

Wind turbines are great, but don't have the same amount of power producing that hydro-electric does, and anyway, it spooks horses!
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The Divine Mistress Potplant
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« Reply #8 on: 07 April 2010, 12:22:PM »

Wind turbines could go en masse on the Awhitu peninsula near Auckland, where there aren't that many horses. (Just don't put them in the landing flight path for Auckland Airport, which would be about the top 1/3rd of the peninsula.

There's a plan to put a tidal power station in the Kaipara too, when they can produce a design to avoid disruption of fisheries and silting issues.

Solar isn't really efficient enough yet, but they could do trials in Marlborough.
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Starscream
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« Reply #9 on: 07 April 2010, 05:08:PM »

Renewable energy really not sustainable here, or anywhere. This new dam proposed could generate enough power for 45,000 homes. That's a pretty damned small amount when you consider there's at least 1.2 million people living in Auckland alone.

Much as people here are against it, nuclear power is a very efficient way of producing power. Yes we are an earthquake prone country but that would obviously be taken into account. There's been very few instances of major nuclear disasters in the world, obviously things like Chernobyl come to mind, but don't forget that it was build badly, and maintenance was totally absent, it was a disaster waiting to happen.
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Ozman
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« Reply #10 on: 07 April 2010, 05:12:PM »

I think it is also incredibly expensive to build and maintain, to the point it would be decades before we saw a return on the money.

Chernobyl is a bit of a non issue really, well obviously not for the residents at the time, but when was the last nuclear accident in Australia?
« Last Edit: 07 April 2010, 05:25:PM by Ozman » Logged

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SiCRa
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« Reply #11 on: 07 April 2010, 05:35:PM »

In a country unwilling to build nuclear power stations, the only current viable alternative is Hydro.

It's generation capabilities are far greater than that of thermal, wind or solar alone or combined!

Tidal generation is still a rather experimental source of power, but the turbines being installed in Kaipara Harbor will give us more of an idea as to how efficient it is.

This new Dam may only supply 45,000 homes, but if we assume that each home holds at least 3 people, that's 130,000 people. More than 10% of Auckland's population!

So, it's just a dam anyway who cares. And the last I heard was that it was being built as irrigation storage primarily, the power generation is just an added bonus.
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Ozman
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« Reply #12 on: 07 April 2010, 05:45:PM »

Totally agree, however it is now the placement that is at issue.  There is a damn proposal at Stockton Plateau (thanks Kaytu) that would turn old mining land into a dam.  Which seems ideal. 
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Kiwihouse
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« Reply #13 on: 07 April 2010, 06:33:PM »

In a country unwilling to build nuclear power stations, the only current viable alternative is Hydro.

It's generation capabilities are far greater than that of thermal, wind or solar alone or combined!

Tidal generation is still a rather experimental source of power, but the turbines being installed in Kaipara Harbor will give us more of an idea as to how efficient it is.

This new Dam may only supply 45,000 homes, but if we assume that each home holds at least 3 people, that's 130,000 people. More than 10% of Auckland's population!

So, it's just a dam anyway who cares. And the last I heard was that it was being built as irrigation storage primarily, the power generation is just an added bonus.

Ha Ha I don't think we need any irrigation storage or for that matter irrigation here on the Coast not with all the metres of rain we get annually.
Any way why shouldnt our province be self sufficent with power we are all sick of sending it over the Cook Straight then being ripped off on our power bills.
Kiwihouse
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« Reply #14 on: 09 April 2010, 06:32:PM »

Looks like a good area to conserve the natural wilderness of to me.

Why build power plants on the west coast anyway? That's miles and miles from where the major power demands come from.

lets just make one that burns coal and oil then and put it in auckland, would that suit you? oh while u are at it up on your high horse, please do not use any power thanks.
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