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11 October 2009, 10:28:PM


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Author Topic: TG: How important is Passing?  (Read 343 times)
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RealTranny
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« Reply #30 on: 09 October 2009, 07:41:PM »



And there are tons of success stories; Storm certainly thinks she is one of them and I have at least a dozen post-op friends scattered across the globe who are happy, well adjusted, beautiful, complete people.

This comment was condescending and uncalled for and shows a bitchiness not usually seen amongst Trans.
Rt
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swit012
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« Reply #31 on: 09 October 2009, 08:02:PM »

Same question how do you know they were happy on my wall I have photos of some of the most beautiful TS and drag Queens, most are dead either murdered, drug OD or Suicide.
For sure, in fact, “happy” miss A is very unhappy and has a lot of issues herself. I use the terms “happy” and “unhappy” because that’s how they made me feel when I perceived them when I was younger, and perhaps quite a bit more naive.
Maybe they all had the same common goal.
That’s why I said “mistakenly” as I elaborate later I came to realise that yes, many of them did/do have common goal BigGrin
Maybe you could define what you think makes up the Transgendered community as I can not imagine many TS saying something like that, also I cant imagine any TS being comfortable being called he unless of course we are talkintg about F to M.
Some Internet thing, I believe.
Takes all kinds back in the good old days we would have called her a Drag Queen (good for straight trade)
Wait, so she can’t be transgendered if she doesn’t want the surgery? This is precisely the thinking I wanted to get some clarification on. You don’t even know this person and you’re clearly saying “not one of us, not one of us”?
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RealTranny
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« Reply #32 on: 09 October 2009, 08:06:PM »

I guess that's the great paradox: "successful" transgendered people integrate and disappear. The ones that make themselves visible are either because they're "unsuccessful" or because they have a particular axe to grind.

what a lot of  oh Im not going to say what i want to here i think Matt would kick me off the forum, suffice it  to say some of us who have had a public persona whether it be politically or because we have been outed by the media many years ago made a conscious decision to stand up and be counted and to help maker the path easier for others coming after us, I well remember the furore when Georgina and I were elected to District councils at around the same time it was the media that made the scene we just wanted to get on with the jobs we were elected to do, for Georgina I guess the attention never stopped, for me my greatest days were when the local papers and laterly television mentioned my achievements without mentioning my TS status not to long ago North and south did a feature on my business and not one mention of me being TS WOW I thought I have arrived.
RT


I suppose for every one transgendered person making a scene in the media, there must be dozens just quietly going about their business, being normal.

I guess that's another question: is it important for TG people to be normal?

I know that some gay people kind of like being "different" being "special" and if homosexuality was perfectly 100% accepted it wouldn't feel so special.

That said, I have never considered myself "normal", though as I get older I do see myself fitting surprisingly comfortably into the norms set for me by society.
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RealTranny
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« Reply #33 on: 09 October 2009, 08:13:PM »

Quote from: RealTranny on Today at 07:25 PM
Takes all kinds back in the good old days we would have called her a Drag Queen (good for straight trade)


Swit said :

Wait, so she can’t be transgendered if she doesn’t want the surgery? This is precisely the thinking I wanted to get some clarification on. You don’t even know this person and you’re clearly saying “not one of us, not one of us”?

No Swit you said that;        I said in the old days we would have called her a Drag Queen I was quoting how it was, I am clearly not  saying anything about your friend as unlike you folks I don't have opinions on people I do not know and neither am I a psychiatrist or amateur psychologist.
RT
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swit012
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« Reply #34 on: 09 October 2009, 08:18:PM »

what a lot of  oh Im not going to say what i want to here i think Matt would kick me off the forum, suffice it  to say some of us who have had a public persona whether it be politically or because we have been outed by the media many years ago made a conscious decision to stand up and be counted and to help maker the path easier for others coming after us, I well remember the furore when Georgina and I were elected to District councils at around the same time it was the media that made the scene we just wanted to get on with the jobs we were elected to do, for Georgina I guess the attention never stopped,
Ok, poor comment on my part and I apologise. I respect the work people have done in the past for this and other causes.
My comment was more that I get the sense that there are so many "ordinary" "boring" transgendered people living their "woodworked" lives out there. Perhaps if the general public knew all of their stories then there would be less of a stigma.

for me my greatest days were when the local papers and laterly television mentioned my achievements without mentioning my TS status not to long ago North and south did a feature on my business and not one mention of me being TS WOW I thought I have arrived.
That is it, that is the goal after all. I'm not begrudging you that.

Quote from: RealTranny on Today at 07:25 PM
No Swit you said that;        I said in the old days we would have called her a Drag Queen I was quoting how it was, I am clearly not  saying anything about your friend as unlike you folks I don't have opinions on people I do not know and neither am I a psychiatrist or amateur psychologist.
RT
Ok, perhaps it's me misunderstanding what "drag queen" means. I took it to mean someone who did it just for kicks (miss A decidedly does not do it just for kicks, it's very important to her). I have been meaning to make a thread about terminology as well  BigGrin
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swit012
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« Reply #35 on: 09 October 2009, 11:51:PM »

Quote from: RealTranny
Quote from: swit012
My understanding is that the jury is still out on whether gender reassignment surgery makes people happer or not.

Is that the Swit Jury  and where does he get his information or is this all supposition.

I neglected to address this so maybe I should. I'll let you into my slightly obsessive thought patterns on this one if you like:

I want to say that some transgendered people are disappointed by the end results because that's what miss A told me. Then again personal communication is an unreliable source and I'd rather make a more general statement than a specific one. Ok, so why not google "sex change disappointment". Hmm a few hits but all from unreliable sources. Except perhaps for the BBC one. Scanning through the article I immediately disagree with its claims: that feminism is threatened by MTF transgender operations. Still it has one sentence of interest to me:

Quote
According to a review carried out by the School of Health and Related Research at Sheffield University, the poor quality of research in this area means that "little robust evidence exists" on the outcomes for patients who have sex change surgery.

Aah, looks sound enough to me. I trust the BBC did their homework and cited the original research. I'll just rephrase the academic wording as something a little softer "the jury's still out". Yeah, that sounds good.

I confess it's not of an academic quality but I felt it was good enough for a post on a discussion forum.
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RealTranny
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« Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 09:02 AM »

Ok, poor comment on my part and I apologise. I respect the work people have done in the past for this and other causes.
My comment was more that I get the sense that there are so many "ordinary" "boring" transgendered people living their "woodworked" lives out there. Perhaps if the general public knew all of their stories then there would be less of a stigma.
That is it, that is the goal after all. I'm not begrudging you that.
Ok, perhaps it's me misunderstanding what "drag queen" means. I took it to mean someone who did it just for kicks (miss A decidedly does not do it just for kicks, it's very important to her). I have been meaning to make a thread about terminology as well  BigGrin

Nooooo just dont go there  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 09:03 AM »

Ok, poor comment on my part and I apologise. I respect the work people have done in the past for this and other causes.
My comment was more that I get the sense that there are so many "ordinary" "boring" transgendered people living their "woodworked" lives out there. Perhaps if the general public knew all of their stories then there would be less of a stigma.
That is it, that is the goal after all. I'm not begrudging you that.
Ok, perhaps it's me misunderstanding what "drag queen" means. I took it to mean someone who did it just for kicks (miss A decidedly does not do it just for kicks, it's very important to her). I have been meaning to make a thread about terminology as well  BigGrin
What Drag Queen means now is far different to what it meant 20 to 40 years ago and even then it was just a generic term for most, a bit like the way Tranny is used now.
RT
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« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 10:16 AM »

Awesome thread peoples!

How necessary is it for others to recognise your gender of choice?

I like it. And I refrain from dismembering people who don't get it right (because I'd have to dismember way too many people). I kinda expect many people will get things wrong if they knew before or have just met me and are just picking a gender based on my gratuitous androgyny.

If you could look like your preferred gender without surgery, would that be good enough?

It's 'good enough', but I still want SRS at some point.

If you're already a woman on the inside, what does it matter if you have a penis?

It gets in the way- I can't get changed in public changing rooms, wear a variety of form fitting womens clothing without things being obvious, I don't have F on my birth certificate or passport so those documents inaccurately identify me.

How does changing how you look on the outside change the way you feel on the inside?

I'm a far more confident person these days, and the change in appearance is a significant part of that. I actually function as a human being in society these days, which I didn't before transitioning.

What happens after gender reassignment?

I'll skip naked down a west coast beach with the wind in my hair like I'm in some kind of a movie.
...what?!
Err, anything you like really. Have fun with life.
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« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 10:52 AM »



I want to say that some transgendered people are disappointed by the end results because that's what miss A told me. Then again personal communication is an unreliable source and I'd rather make a more general statement than a specific one. Ok, so why not google "sex change disappointment". Hmm a few hits but all from unreliable sources. Except perhaps for the BBC one.
 Still it has one sentence of interest to me:
Acc
according to a review carried out by the School of Health and Related Research at Sheffield University, the poor quality of research in this area means that "little robust evidence exists" on the outcomes for patients who have sex change surgery.

Aah, looks sound enough to me. I trust the BBC did their homework and cited the original research. I'll just rephrase the academic wording as something a little softer "the jury's still out". Yeah, that sounds good.



See you are focusing on the few bad stories but not looking at the successes. Your looking for the negatives.
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html

for sure there are some sad stories but there are way more success ones.

according to a review carried out by the School of Health and Related Research at Sheffield University, the poor quality of research in this area means that "little robust evidence exists" on the outcomes for patients who have sex change surgery.

There are two ways to read that sentence.
To me what it says is there is little evidence to suggest GRS has a bad effect.
The whole point is there is little evidence.

There needs to be alot more research world wide into a whole range of things effecting Trans which was one of my main points in the original article I wrote.

Why did the School of Health and Related Research at Sheffield University do a study in the outcomes of sex change patients instead of a study on how hormones effect Trans, whats the best ones, how can employment issues for trans be best helped, how many trans are mentally ill.
I would predict for the same reasons our own MoH did a similar paper with a similar answer to that in an attempt to block Trans access to high cost funding for GRS a couple of years back.
" poor quality of research in this area" was basically the same wording used in our MoH report and yet they tried use that report to block funding. Even the people who produced that report said it was the wrong type of report asked for and that they could little evidence.
Not enough is known and yet these people make decissions for trans based on incorrect information.
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« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 11:02 AM »


How necessary is it for others to recognise your gender of choice?

I like it. And I refrain from dismembering people who don't get it right (because I'd have to dismember way too many people). I kinda expect many people will get things wrong if they knew before or have just met me and are just picking a gender based on my gratuitous androgyny.


A lot of us have had to learn self restraint! Sometimes it can be hard to remember that not everybody has a good grasp on certain concepts (ie. differentiating between sex and gender), but I also tend to be pretty tolerant of people getting it wrong - unless someone is being willfully ignorant or intentionally mis-gendering me.
For example, I once had a friend who, in a situation where I teasingly used his full name (he had a name that is typically shortened in casual situations, like Nick -> Nicholas*) turned around and full birth-named me in a group of people who either didn't know my birth name or weren't aware of my trans status - Needless to say we're no longer friends!
I think it's important that we're tolerant, but it's also important that people recognise that they could put us in a seriously dangerous situation by mis-gendering us around the wrong people.

*obviously not his actual name.
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swit012
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« Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 12:16 PM »

Nooooo just dont go there  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Awww. I take it this issue has been thrashed to death on the forums then?

What Drag Queen means now is far different to what it meant 20 to 40 years ago and even then it was just a generic term for most, a bit like the way Tranny is used now.
Not to go into too much detail, but I always thought the term "tranny" was a negative one. Obviously since you've chosen the word for yourself it can't have that meaning to you. I always associated "tranny" with "transvestite" which also has negative connotations to me.
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« Reply #42 on: Yesterday at 12:14 PM »

I like it. And I refrain from dismembering people who don't get it right (because I'd have to dismember way too many people). I kinda expect many people will get things wrong if they knew before or have just met me and are just picking a gender based on my gratuitous androgyny.

Dismerbering people, lol, i like that quote!

A lot of us have had to learn self restraint!

Self restraint is a good thing to learn.  I'd recommend a healthy dose of this to anyone starting down the path of tranisition.
For me I had quite a few acceptance issues from my family; to be honest the way I handled certain situations wasn't that flash, I would go back and change this if I could as though some relationships have been mended others may never be.
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« Reply #43 on: Yesterday at 12:21 PM »

Not to go into too much detail, but I always thought the term "tranny" was a negative one. Obviously since you've chosen the word for yourself it can't have that meaning to you. I always associated "tranny" with "transvestite" which also has negative connotations to me.

Its the problem with labels Swit, some people will take offence where others are comfortable or unconcerned with a certain term.  Often it can be in context to and who is doing the "name" calling.
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« Reply #44 on: Yesterday at 12:33 PM »

I wear it like a badge of honor a rite of passage.

It leaves no room for anyone else to use it in a derogotary way against me and gives me the power in fact these days folks become embarrased when i mention it and say things like we had forgotton why bring it up.
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