National Library of New Zealand
Harvested by the National Library of New Zealand on: Oct 11 2009 at 9:24:39 GMT
Search boxes and external links may not function. Having trouble viewing this page? Click here
Close Minimize Help
Wayback Machine
GayNZ.com Home
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
11 October 2009, 10:24:PM


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: TG: How important is Passing?  (Read 340 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
swit012
Stephen
Addicted Boarder
*****
Online Online

Posts: 846



WWW
« on: 09 October 2009, 12:12:AM »

"Passing" in the Transgendered (TG) community refers to one's ability to be accepted or regarded as one's gender of choice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(gender)

I have a few TG friends and have spoken to a few people about these sorts of issues, so I have my own opinions, but I'd like to hear yours first. In particular, I see passing in two stages: crossdressing and gender reassignment. I guess this thread deals with both but ultimately the question most likely ends up at gender reassignment.

I'll throw a few inflammatory questions in to start with:
How necessary is it for others to recognise your gender of choice?
If you could look like your preferred gender without surgery, would that be good enough?
If you're already a woman on the inside, what does it matter if you have a penis?
How does changing how you look on the outside change the way you feel on the inside?
What happens after gender reassignment?

I use the word choice here but I recognise it's not a choice. These questions are intended to provoke a response, and hopefully a discussion, not to hurt anyone. So, talk away  BigGrin
Logged
storm4u
Hardcore Boarder
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 357



« Reply #1 on: 09 October 2009, 08:03:AM »


How necessary is it for others to recognise your gender of choice?
If you could look like your preferred gender without surgery, would that be good enough?
If you're already a woman on the inside, what does it matter if you have a penis?
How does changing how you look on the outside change the way you feel on the inside?
What happens after gender reassignment?

I use the word choice here but I recognise it's not a choice. These questions are intended to provoke a response, and hopefully a discussion, not to hurt anyone. So, talk away  BigGrin

Thanks for this thread and your interest swit - takes alot to offend this tough old skin so dont worry.
Whatever I write is from MY experience and is my own opinion and not necessarily the opinions of all Trans.
The word transgender has been hijacked to now be an umbrella term covering a multitude, intersex, cross dressers, transsexuals and more. I am a sex change - a female, Technically it can be said that I am no longer even a member of the TG commuity.


How necessary is it for others to recognise your gender of choice?
It's a mental thing and purely personal to each individual. To some it is more important than to others. Same as with a range of other things. Some people are proud to be recognised for their religion, some not bothered; some proud to be recognised by their nationality, some not bothered. When I met my ex friend in Oz, a Glam Trans, she told me I did it all wrong by rushing off to have GRS. I should have had facial surgery, hip implants, lazer, lipo, ribs removed etc first. To her the outward appearance mattered more than what was between her legs. That earnt her the $$$ she needed for surgeries. She passed as female easily. For me, Im not so worried about passing perfectly as female. I am one and thats enough. At 51, I could walk the streets of Surfers in a pink bikini and heels and got heaps of wolf whistles. At 54, I feel I still look a lot better than alot of natal women my age. Being outted doesnt worry me as I believe that as those who went before me, made my journey easier for me, I feel my being out there also helps those who come behind.

If you could look like your preferred gender without surgery, would that be good enough?
No. To me having a penis would have meant I was still male. Having a vagina means I am female. Even tho I knew I was female when I still had a penis, it was important to have it removed. Most working preopTS that I have known, allow it to be acknowledged when working but prefer it not to be recognised at all other times. If you want a relationship with a trans then dont go straight for 'it'. Ignore 'it.'

If you're already a woman on the inside, what does it matter if you have a penis?
As my surgeon said in my 20/20 doco " ...her body match her soul." Its important.

How does changing how you look on the outside change the way you feel on the inside?
It is very much all with in the head but it made a huge differance. Hard to explain.
Would you feel better owning and driving a brand new red ferrari or a 20yo 1600cc Toyota? (answer honestly)
If you get all dressed up in a suit for a formal wedding does it make you feel good?
It improves ones self esteem and makes one feel whole and proud.

What happens after gender reassignment?
Phew, hard. In what way and when?
Every sex change I know has said the same thing after their surgery.
They werent prepared for the emotional side of it. It's huge and I find it impossible to describe. The uplifting and release and happiness was phenominal. A totally uplifting experience.
I have recently been talking to NZs first sexchange (1975) and another of the earliest (1978) and it has been interesting. Most sex change when they return, tend to go 'stealth' either by choice or accident. They are happy and complete and just want to be allowed to live their life as the female they were meant to be. If the are lucky to have a partner then the just settle down and do thier thing.


'Choice' - yes pleased you understand thanks. Being trans is not a choice. The choice is if you want to recognise who you are or wish to continue to life as who you arent. To me most trans are the most honest people in the world, for they recognise who they are and are out there living as who they are.

The opinions above are mine and not necessarily those of all trans. My opinons have changed heaps in the last 5yrs.
Discussion is good and welcome but can moderators please watch that this thread doesnt get hijacked into personal attacks - thanks
Logged
RealTranny
Addicted Boarder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 884



WWW
« Reply #2 on: 09 October 2009, 08:42:AM »

NZ's first Sex changes long before 1975.
RT
Logged
CaitlinJ
Optimus Princess
Regular Boarder
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 150


Transformer


« Reply #3 on: 09 October 2009, 09:06:AM »

I have a few TG friends and have spoken to a few people about these sorts of issues, so I have my own opinions, but I'd like to hear yours first. In particular, I see passing in two stages: crossdressing and gender reassignment. I guess this thread deals with both but ultimately the question most likely ends up at gender reassignment

I'd like to point out that there are a significant number of non-ops, who will never have surgery out of choice.
I'd also like to point out that the FTMs often get ignored when threads like this are created, because they have less visibility. The vast majority of FTMs will never have genital surgery, for a number of reasons. The primary reasons I see are:
a) cost (somewhere in the region of $100,000+ without even including multiple chest surgeries)
b) effectiveness (the phaloplasty surgery is incredibly rudimentary, the result is often unsatisfactory)
c) danger (the phaloplasty surgery has a 100% risk of complication, a high death rate and a 50% chance of leaving you incontinent)
Anyway, on to the questions (which are, disappointingly, aimed at trans women)...

Quote
How necessary is it for others to recognise your gender of choice?

Absolutely vital.
Humans are primates and primates are incredibly social creatures. Being socially recognised as the correct gender is vital to my mental well-being. Being recognised as something 'in between' or something 'fake' isn't satisfactory, as it puts you on the outer of the gender binary (and makes you a pariah) which is unfortunately still strongly represented in society. Of course, some people enjoy sitting outside the gender binary (genderqueer, androgyne, neutrois) but I'm not one of those, so being seen as a woman - and only a woman - is absolutely vital to me.

Quote
If you could look like your preferred gender without surgery, would that be good enough?

Tough question.
I consider myself visually non-distinguishable as a male and I haven't had any surgeries.
On some days, it's enough; I have no desire for surgery and I feel that I can operate (no pun intended) as a woman for the rest of my life without surgery.
On other days, the physical dysphoria really gets to me and I long for surgery. I'll be standing in the shower and staring down at this ugly, lumpy collection of bits at my crotch and my mind will scream at me "WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!"
As a result, I generally avoid looking at my genitals whenever possible.

Quote
If you're already a woman on the inside, what does it matter if you have a penis?

Bit of an excluding question as far as the FTM community is concerned, but anyway...
This ties into the previous question; some days it doesn't matter to me. Some days it matters a lot.
Overall, when all factors are taken into consideration, it doesn't actually matter. The only people who should ever see my genitals are myself, my boyfriend and maybe my doctor.
Let's face it, no one has ever died of not getting GRS. If I never get GRS, I might feel disappointed.
However, my goal is to live as and be recognised as a woman.
I don't actually need a vagina for that.

Quote
How does changing how you look on the outside change the way you feel on the inside?

Again, tough question.
Cross-dressing on my own felt good. It felt right. It felt wonderful.
Cross-dressing in public was scary, thrilling, dangerous and nerve-racking. I didn't actually like it much.
Initially, when I went full time, 'cross-dressing', it was terrifying. I was paranoid, scared, twitchy, easily offended, shy and a little depressed. In hindsight, my mistake was not going on hormones first to help feminise my features and body a bit more.
However, once I started to relax into my new appearance and the pills started to kick in, that good feeling, that feeling of 'rightness' and the wonderful feeling returned.
It was practically magical.
Some days I look in the mirror and I can't believe that the person I'm looking at is really me.

Quote
What happens after gender reassignment?

Apart from lots of dilating to keep the neo-vagina open?
Presumably you get your Birth Certificate changed from M to F or F to M.
After that? Life goes on as it did before GRS.
« Last Edit: 09 October 2009, 09:56:AM by CaitlinJ » Logged

storm4u
Hardcore Boarder
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 357



« Reply #4 on: 09 October 2009, 09:29:AM »

NZ's first Sex changes long before 1975.
RT

Admit it looks like i got some dates wrong.
Problem is reliable information or just information on sex changes is hard to find.
VW told me she was first. Had her op in Oz and was only the 2nd over there.
Believe you know her.
The other starts with 'L' and hers was in 1975 here in NZ.

I was merely believing what they told me.
Logged
swit012
Stephen
Addicted Boarder
*****
Online Online

Posts: 846



WWW
« Reply #5 on: 09 October 2009, 11:08:AM »

Ok, now I'll have a go. I apologise that I don't have much to say about FTM transgendered people because I don't know any personally (I only know of one and I can't claim to know him that well to be honest).

When I was younger, I only ever recognised MTF cross dressers and I perceived them in two flavours: the ones which made me feel sad and the ones which made me feel happy.

The "sad" cross dressers were tragic: make-up not done properly and quite obviously male. It made me feel sad and uneasy because I realised that no one would do that simply to get some kind of reaction, would they? It can't have been a fettish, because they didn't look happy. They looked glum, trapped. There was an obvious need there to pass as a woman and they were obviously very very bad at it.  The "happy" ones were beautiful, admirable and you either had to *know* they were physically men, or have some kind of sixth sense. Because this came so easily to them I assumed that they just did it for fun, drag queens.

From the above happy/sad dichotomy I (mistakenly) formed the notion that people who were good at cross dressing did it for fun and people who were bad at it did it because they really needed to be another gender.

I have two such friends, who I won't name. They're both MTF, they both seem to be comfortable being called "he" but I'll use "she" to avoid confusion. Miss A is young, full of life and beautiful. She passes, she passes so very well that members of the transgendered community in New Zealand have turned their backs on her "you can't understand our problems " is what they said. Miss B is tall, masculine and very blokey. She loves to wear little Lolita dresses but they are entirely inappropriate and it just doesn't work. She knows that, her friends know that, we support her as best we can.

I used to think A did it for the kicks and B did it because she had to. Turns out they are both TG and A went so far as to go through the psych screening for hormone replacement therapy. She didn't go through with it in the end. Why? Well, she said "It would ruin my sex life."

Reading between the lines, it seems as though gender reassignment is not so important for A. Passing is important, but only in certain circumstances. She cross-dresses in public with the same trepidation Caitlin mentioned and she finds it liberating, scary and exciting. It's obviously a very big deal. Then again, I've seen her in her (men's) underwear and that's not an issue for her. Gender seems to have ceased to be an issue between us as friends, passing seems to only be important when presenting herself to the rest of the world.

One of the things that A is very concerned about is the number of pre-op transgendered people who think "after I get my surgery everything will be better". I sounded this out before with storm and she says the surgery made a big difference, but apparently, a number of transgendered people do get the surgery and then realise that their lives haven’t changed. They may be different on the outside, but their problems on the inside haven’t changed. This is because (as we all know) being transgendered can bring with it a great deal of other problems. 

I know a number of other MTF transgendered people who have a great many problems in their lives. Mental illness seems to be high in the GLBT community or maybe it's just that I tend to gravitate towards mentally unwell people. Caitlin: you mentioned dysphoria and that's a concern for me.

When I think dysphoria, I think about those people who have fixated on a part of their body they don't like and need to get rid of it. One man (for example) disliked his legs so much he eventually chopped them off. The sad thing about his story is that no sooner had he gotten rid of this legs that he fixated on his right hand as the next thing to go. My fear is that the need to change one's body, when it finally happens, may not produce the life-change  expected and lead to bitter disappointment. My understanding is that the jury is still out on whether gender reassignment surgery makes people happer or not. For some people (like storm) it certainly seems to be a positive thing. For others, it results in bitter disappointment when they realise that the genitals weren't the things causing the negative thoughts and feelings.

So, my view on passing is that it seems important but not always and not when presenting to all people: in some contexts, gender is unimportant. As for gender reassignment, my view is that it’s valuable, but only in so far as allowing one to present as the proper gender, not as a catalyst to “fix my life”.

I know that sounds a little flaky and disjointed but I am still forming my views about this BigGrin
Logged
storm4u
Hardcore Boarder
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 357



« Reply #6 on: 09 October 2009, 11:31:AM »

My fear is that the need to change one's body, when it finally happens, may not produce the life-change  expected and lead to bitter disappointment. My understanding is that the jury is still out on whether gender reassignment surgery makes people happer or not. For some people (like storm) it certainly seems to be a positive thing. For others, it results in bitter disappointment when they realise that the genitals weren't the things causing the negative thoughts and feelings.

So, my view on passing is that it seems important but not always and not when presenting to all people: in some contexts, gender is unimportant. As for gender reassignment, my view is that it’s valuable, but only in so far as allowing one to present as the proper gender, not as a catalyst to “fix my life”.


My opinion.
No two transsexuals journey is ever the same as anothers. There will always be similar paths but each has its own highs and lows. There is no right way or wrong way. I know many sex change and all are totally happy with what they have done. Im sure there are a few who regret what they did somewhere. GRS is not the sole panacea for transsexuals but for many it can be a huge help. For those who think it is the sole cure of all thier ills, then yes likely they will be disappointed. For me personally, it was positive. But going through what I have, has cost me alot. Its not the loss of family, $$$$, employment but something more that is hard to describe.

Andrew (me) was a very confident and well grounded person. People came to me for sound advise. I was a leader and respected.
Storm, puts out the same except I'm not. I may come across to others as confident but actually I know I have lost alot of that. Stress effects me alot more now where Andrew handled it fine. Even enjoyed. Ask Storm how she is and I will always say "Great" but that isnt always right. Im still honest just have learnt that if I sit there and blub, who will really listen and help.

I'm the one who has to do it. No one else can do it for me.
When other trans come to me for advice, I tell them plain, 'I cant tell you what to do or what is right for you. You are responsible for yourself. I'm not, your Doctor isnt, Psycologist isn't, you are solely responsible for yourself. Ask the questions, seek the knowledge and take control and responsibility for your own decisions.'

I made my choices for me. My outcome is my responsibility.

Gender and gender recognision is important for a transsexuals mental well being. Having to fight for it is mentally draining.
So to me it is important in all contexts.
Logged
CaitlinJ
Optimus Princess
Regular Boarder
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 150


Transformer


« Reply #7 on: 09 October 2009, 11:43:AM »

One of the things that A is very concerned about is the number of pre-op transgendered people who think "after I get my surgery everything will be better". I sounded this out before with storm and she says the surgery made a big difference, but apparently, a number of transgendered people do get the surgery and then realise that their lives haven’t changed. They may be different on the outside, but their problems on the inside haven’t changed. This is because (as we all know) being transgendered can bring with it a great deal of other problems.

There have certainly been a number of horror stories surrounding post-GRS patients who have not dealt with the surgery well. Only a month ago, a recently post-op girl from Aus whom I chat to online tried to commit suicide. Other stories are bandied about the trans community; the girl who threw herself out of a window after GRS, trying to kill herself, the girl in Auckland who detransitioned to being a man without a penis. The anti-trans movements in the States like to cite the numerous cases where GRS has failed to make a difference.
Of course, it's incredibly easy to fixate on the horror stories, because the success stories are...boring.

And there are tons of success stories; Storm certainly thinks she is one of them and I have at least a dozen post-op friends scattered across the globe who are happy, well adjusted, beautiful, complete people.
The other reason why you won't hear about the success stories is because they tend to fade away into the background of everyday life. The term used by the American girls is 'Woodworked'. It's not quite the same as Stealth, but it has most of the same benefits.
You become so unremarkable and mundane that you simply don't stick out from the general populace of women in any easily perceivable way. Some people will know your past and you're not actively hiding it. However, you blend so well that it no longer becomes a topic of conversation and people feel rude bringing it up.

Anyway...
GRS doesn't solve all your problems. It solves a singular problem: not having a vagina.
As you pointed out, there is a tendency to believe that GRS will fix all your problems, whether they are related to being transgendered or not. I know of at least one such person, who is so desperate for GRS that it is consuming her. She honestly believes that it will fix all her problems; relationship, passing, work issues, depression, etc, etc.
Fortunately her psychiatrist has denied her the letter she needs to get GRS.
Which is reassuring as it means that there are measures in place to prevent the horror stories happening. The psychiatric profession isn't perfect (is there any medical profession that is?) though and some people slip through the cracks - or are simply practised liars and manage to get through the psyche assessments.
There will always be mistakes.

And the mistakes are what we will hear about in the media, not "Caitlin had her surgery two months ago and has adjusted fine. Now here's Tom with the weather..."

Quote
When I think dysphoria, I think about those people who have fixated on a part of their body they don't like and need to get rid of it. One man (for example) disliked his legs so much he eventually chopped them off. The sad thing about his story is that no sooner had he gotten rid of this legs that he fixated on his right hand as the next thing to go. My fear is that the need to change one's body, when it finally happens, may not produce the life-change  expected and lead to bitter disappointment. My understanding is that the jury is still out on whether gender reassignment surgery makes people happer or not. For some people (like storm) it certainly seems to be a positive thing. For others, it results in bitter disappointment when they realise that the genitals weren't the things causing the negative thoughts and feelings.

A lot of what I wrote above applies to your quote above.
I think the other issue to explore here is what I have dubbed the 'hobby' aspect of being trans, which perhaps ties into the dysphoric amputee situation.
There is a certain degree of challenge in being trans. There is also a fairly well mapped path to being a MTF trans person (which has minor variations on the order):
- Get counselling
- Go on hormones
- Dress part time
- Dress full time
- Get a psyche assessment
- Get GRS
- Finish
The problem here is when being trans becomes the focus of a person's life; what happens when they are done? People can end up feeling deflated and disappointed, because everything is done. What have they got to look forward to now? Surgery was the driving purpose of their entire life, so what can they do now?
For some, it can turn into a constant battle of self improvement. A dear friend of mine in the states has, I believe, a problem. I believe that she is now addicted to surgery. She has had at least 5 surgeries on her face. She has had several breast augmentations and has had lipo and botox. It's a concern, but it's her body; I can't really tell her that what she is doing is wrong. If it makes her happy and she can afford it...well, then do it.
But for others, who see it as the finishing line and don't know what to do with themselves afterwards; often it means suicide. They have achieved all their dreams and there is nothing left to live for.
This is why it is important to have strong goals and dreams that go beyond GRS.
Logged

swit012
Stephen
Addicted Boarder
*****
Online Online

Posts: 846



WWW
« Reply #8 on: 09 October 2009, 12:22:PM »

My opinion.
No two transsexuals journey is ever the same as anothers. There will always be similar paths but each has its own highs and lows. There is no right way or wrong way. I know many sex change and all are totally happy with what they have done. Im sure there are a few who regret what they did somewhere. GRS is not the sole panacea for transsexuals but for many it can be a huge help. For those who think it is the sole cure of all thier ills, then yes likely they will be disappointed. For me personally, it was positive. But going through what I have, has cost me alot. Its not the loss of family, $$$$, employment but something more that is hard to describe.

Andrew (me) was a very confident and well grounded person. People came to me for sound advise. I was a leader and respected.
Storm, puts out the same except I'm not. I may come across to others as confident but actually I know I have lost alot of that. Stress effects me alot more now where Andrew handled it fine. Even enjoyed. Ask Storm how she is and I will always say "Great" but that isnt always right. Im still honest just have learnt that if I sit there and blub, who will really listen and help.

I'm the one who has to do it. No one else can do it for me.
When other trans come to me for advice, I tell them plain, 'I cant tell you what to do or what is right for you. You are responsible for yourself. I'm not, your Doctor isnt, Psycologist isn't, you are solely responsible for yourself. Ask the questions, seek the knowledge and take control and responsibility for your own decisions.'

I made my choices for me. My outcome is my responsibility.

Gender and gender recognision is important for a transsexuals mental well being. Having to fight for it is mentally draining.
So to me it is important in all contexts.
You know, Storm, I have to admit that at times I have seen you as hysterical (not in the funny way) and I was worried that this thread would turn into a lot of negative vitriol. Your above post has effectively shattered that image I had of you. I think it’s because you allowed yourself to be vulnerable for a bit, I understand and respect you better.

Also, thanks for your measured response, Caitlin, I appreciate that discussing this kind of thing, especially with someone who is not TG is probably quite difficult. I think it’s useful though, hopefully the many TG people lurking on these forums will find both of your insights useful.  BigGrin

Good to hear about the horror-bias. I never thought about it in that light before. It’s also good to hear about the doctor putting the kibosh on your friend’s surgery. I know at least two MTF people who under no circumstances should get surgery because they are simply not ready. I guess the message for anyone considering surgery is to go get counselling.

I think the other issue to explore here is what I have dubbed the 'hobby' aspect of being trans, which perhaps ties into the dysphoric amputee situation.
...
The problem here is when being trans becomes the focus of a person's life; what happens when they are done? People can end up feeling deflated and disappointed, because everything is done. What have they got to look forward to now? Surgery was the driving purpose of their entire life, so what can they do now?
For some, it can turn into a constant battle of self improvement. A dear friend of mine in the states has, I believe, a problem. I believe that she is now addicted to surgery. She has had at least 5 surgeries on her face. She has had several breast augmentations and has had lipo and botox. It's a concern, but it's her body; I can't really tell her that what she is doing is wrong. If it makes her happy and she can afford it...well, then do it.
But for others, who see it as the finishing line and don't know what to do with themselves afterwards; often it means suicide. They have achieved all their dreams and there is nothing left to live for.
This is why it is important to have strong goals and dreams that go beyond GRS.
Yes, this is why I added the question about "what happens after gender reassignment". Instinctively it makes sense if you are fighting a long battle and finally win, what’s left for you to do? I think that's not just a lesson for TG people. We all set up these goals for ourselves (lose weight, get a boyfriend etc) and when we end up achieving them we realise we have nothing else planned. I learnt that lesson myself.

This may be unrelated but at least one TG person I know has clearly developed a victim complex to the point that I think she puts herself in situations where she can play the victim. I think that if/when she gets the surgery, she will still be looking for people to victimise her.
Logged
storm4u
Hardcore Boarder
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 357



« Reply #9 on: 09 October 2009, 12:39:PM »

You know, Storm, I have to admit that at times I have seen you as hysterical (not in the funny way) and I was worried that this thread would turn into a lot of negative vitriol. Your above post has effectively shattered that image I had of you. I think it’s because you allowed yourself to be vulnerable for a bit, I understand and respect you better.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Not to sure if that is good or bad but my attitude these days is I'm happy, I live my life for me. If people have a problem with me, its their problem, not mine. I'll take it as good.

Catlin often has a lot of good points in what she says also. She has obviously done alot of research into things and alot more than myself.
Happy to admit it. I think Catlin and I are two good examples of Transjournies that while seeking the same goal take different routes. Catlin has researched, gone and become involved in Trans groups, listened and makes her decisions from what she knows.
I just knew it was right, no questions and went and did it. Neither one of us is more right than the other.

Catlin wrote:
"But for others, who see it as the finishing line and don't know what to do with themselves afterwards; often it means suicide."

Dont know that it is 'often' but im sure suicide is a result for some but for alot yes there is a big question 'Ok achieved that. What now?'

And yes she is right that the stories written are about the bad results and not the good ones. I have been trying in the last few months to get some media coverage on just that but no one is interested in picking up on it. What about the sex change 5yrs after? Where r they? I know many who are just leading 'boring normal' lives. Happy as.
Logged
Wabbit2
----
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 30


« Reply #10 on: 09 October 2009, 12:44:PM »

How necessary is it for others to recognise your gender of choice?
Ok I guess this is a two part question; as in recognition of society of your Gender and “Passing”.  

In my opinion the recognition of society is most important; though of course it is a thorny issue for many Trans people and it leads directly to the second part of the question, “passing”.  If you pass well you will generally get more recognition of your gender from society.

I expect people to respect my gender and have worked on my ability to pass having said that I’m not ashamed of who I am and though I don’t tend to tell many people about my TS status I am happy to discuss it with people in the right circumstances.

Of course the question of passing is not just your own self presentation, as unless you transitioned very young with the support of family and friends then you frankly have a history.

So unless you are prepared to completely wipe your past then it will come up at different times.  And to be honest sometimes it can probably be a bit arrogant to expect all family and old friends to accept who you truely are as much as you may want them too.

If you could look like your preferred gender without surgery, would that be good enough?
Absolutely!  

Surgery of course is a very personal (and financial) choice for anybody and there are many different surgeries open to trans people, not just the obvious one of SRS.  Which as Caitlin pointed out is regularly a non option for FTM Trans people.

If you're already a woman on the inside, what does it matter if you have a penis?
It’s a very personal state of mind.  Personally I have times when I want the surgery now (like right now) and times when I’m comfortable with where I am.  Part of my position on this is I have a long term partner who certainly does not judge me on what is between my legs.  Also having been through many of the stages of transition over a lengthy period of time my attitude and priorities change (my prerogative as a woman!).

Having said that I believe at some point I will go for SRS.

How does changing how you look on the outside change the way you feel on the inside?
It’s that recognition of society seeing you as you truly are; having people accept me for the gender I am gives me the confidence and self belief in myself.  

What happens after gender reassignment?
Have to get back to you on that one Smile
Logged
CaitlinJ
Optimus Princess
Regular Boarder
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 150


Transformer


« Reply #11 on: 09 October 2009, 01:18:PM »

I have been trying in the last few months to get some media coverage on just that but no one is interested in picking up on it. What about the sex change 5yrs after? Where r they? I know many who are just leading 'boring normal' lives. Happy as.

Fortunately there is the 'Sex Change Hospital' show which aired on Sky a couple of months back. It ran for one season, but I'm not sure if there will be a second season. I'm certain it will be repeated though.
It followed a number of patients, both FTM and MTF, who went and had their surgery with Dr. Marci Bowers in Colorado.

The issue with trans related shows is that the heteronormative agenda rears its ugly head when these shows come on TV. Your average hetero kiwi male is going to balk at the idea of watching a show where 'men' get their willies cut off. He will change channel and make crude jokes about trannies and the idea of having sex with an inside-out penis.
Sadly, the kind of people who will watch these shows aren't the ones who need to see them.
I think the best saturation that can be done is in public. There are 3 trans women in my workplace alone, so pretty much every single person who works here (a good 600+ people) can say that they know at least one 'transsexual' (the most common thing I'm called at work).
Some people at work might know all three of us, which is an even bigger bonus.

In saying all that, I'm not going to be 'out there' forever. At some stage I will leave this workplace and I will attempt to Woodwork myself or go full Stealth.
The next trans person can pick up from there. I will have done my time.
Logged

storm4u
Hardcore Boarder
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 357



« Reply #12 on: 09 October 2009, 01:41:PM »

Fortunately there is the 'Sex Change Hospital' show which aired on Sky a couple of months back.

Yes alas never saw it but have heard varying comments on it.
Good and bad.

But there are many successful sex change here in nz, who like you state, many rub shoulders with on a day to day basis.
We need to get to those macho hetro males and show them that here in NZ society we are being accepted.
To me showing them good kiwi trans is better than showing them some of the American ones I have seen.

Saw an American programme on a TS about to go for GRS. It showed 'him' still working and living as male and actually the day he was admited to hospital for GRS, he arrived dressed as a male.

Is that for real? And what an image it showed the world.
Logged
swit012
Stephen
Addicted Boarder
*****
Online Online

Posts: 846



WWW
« Reply #13 on: 09 October 2009, 01:44:PM »

In saying all that, I'm not going to be 'out there' forever. At some stage I will leave this workplace and I will attempt to Woodwork myself or go full Stealth.
The next trans person can pick up from there. I will have done my time.

I guess that's the great paradox: "successful" transgendered people integrate and disappear. The ones that make themselves visible are either because they're "unsuccessful" or because they have a particular axe to grind. I suppose for every one transgendered person making a scene in the media, there must be dozens just quietly going about their business, being normal.

I guess that's another question: is it important for TG people to be normal?

I know that some gay people kind of like being "different" being "special" and if homosexuality was perfectly 100% accepted it wouldn't feel so special.

That said, I have never considered myself "normal", though as I get older I do see myself fitting surprisingly comfortably into the norms set for me by society.
Logged
phaag
Gaynz Next Top Model Winner 2009
I Sleep Here !
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 3705


kunst


« Reply #14 on: 09 October 2009, 01:50:PM »

Best doco series I've seen about FTM and MTF is Transgeneration.
Here is the imdb link
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461110/

the wiki page is great too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgeneration

TransGeneration is an eight episode documentary series depicting the lives of four transgender college students during the 2004/2005 school year as they attempt to balance college, their social lives, and their struggle to merge their internal and external selves[1] while gender transitioning.

Two of the students are transitioning from male to female and two from female to male. All four are living on campus at four different colleges.[1]

TransGeneration is shown on the LGBT television network Logo, was broadcast weekly on the Sundance Channel from September to November of 2005 and released as a feature film at some festivals and independent theaters
.


It played onb the documentary channel in New Zealand so if you don't have Sky you wouldn't have been able to see it... really intresting look at young people transitioning... their different reasons... how people reacted to them etc.


Logged

"We are all in the gutters, but some of us are looking at the stars" -Oscar Wilde
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM