National Library of New Zealand
Harvested by the National Library of New Zealand on: Oct 8 2008 at 7:26:17 GMT
Search boxes and external links may not function. Having trouble viewing this page? Click here
Close Minimize Help
Wayback Machine
GayNZ.com Home
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

   Home   Help Login Register  

News: Gay? Yes! Dumb? No! ... and we now have a geeks' department! Post your nerdiness in our Technosexuals section.

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Agnostics of the world unite!  (Read 546 times)
Fradley
Nintendo!!
Addicted Boarder
*****

Karma: +23/-4
Offline Offline

Posts: 501


Tinkering with the fabric of existence.


« Reply #45 on: Today at 01:29 AM »

hehe that was a good video.

I've got a random religious question. did god create hell and satan? or like, did it already exist?
« Last Edit: Today at 02:00 AM by Fradley » Logged

When the shit hits the fan, get a tent!
irishkiwi
I Sleep Here !
*****

Karma: +96/-125
Offline Offline

Posts: 3865



« Reply #46 on: Today at 10:00 AM »

God created the Devil and hell became his prision (sorta).

Thsi is a brief run down of how it went...

Luicfer (the devil) was considered the most beutiful of all Gods angles. He was known as the Morning Star. However Luicfer decieded God need to take early retierment and persuaded many angles to side with him. So a war raged in Heaven.

Gods side won. As a result, God cast Luicfer and his buddies into prison (hell).

Theres a whole lot more that goes with this, but the above, paraphrased as it is, gives you a starting point.
Logged

You have enemies?  Good.  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~Winston Churchill
Yanto Harkness
I Sleep Here !
*****

Karma: +119/-132
Offline Offline

Posts: 1156



« Reply #47 on: Today at 12:48 PM »

lucifer Morningstar was a tool for God to indulge his power schemes

i always liked the idea that christ dying on the cross for our sins was actually worth nothing asd he knew he was the son of god and would be resserected to live at his fathers right arm
Logged
Fradley
Nintendo!!
Addicted Boarder
*****

Karma: +23/-4
Offline Offline

Posts: 501


Tinkering with the fabric of existence.


« Reply #48 on: Today at 03:39 PM »

ooh, that's a slap in the face Yanto Harkness.

Very interesting Irish Kiwi, It sounds almost as if the angels he created are every bit human, just with extra stuff.

And this then seems that if God could make such a mistake like that, what other mistakes has he done? looks back at that second video
Logged

When the shit hits the fan, get a tent!
irishkiwi
I Sleep Here !
*****

Karma: +96/-125
Offline Offline

Posts: 3865



« Reply #49 on: Today at 04:00 PM »

The hosts of heaven were created to serve.

We were not.

We got the better end of the deal, we can sin our arses off, and as long as we accpet Chirst as our Lord and saviour, its all good. We get forgiven.  Angels, Seraphims, etc... dont get, for lack of a better word, the tolerance we get. They know God, personaly, and as such must behave themsleves, or else.
Logged

You have enemies?  Good.  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~Winston Churchill
irishkiwi
I Sleep Here !
*****

Karma: +96/-125
Offline Offline

Posts: 3865



« Reply #50 on: Today at 04:02 PM »

lucifer Morningstar was a tool for God to indulge his power schemes

i always liked the idea that christ dying on the cross for our sins was actually worth nothing asd he knew he was the son of god and would be resserected to live at his fathers right arm

Try getting nailed to a cross sometime and then say its worth nothing. There was a reason Christ begged God to not let it happen. He was human, and scared, even thou he knew what was to come after.
Logged

You have enemies?  Good.  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~Winston Churchill
siryesir
Addicted Boarder
*****

Karma: +47/-41
Offline Offline

Posts: 759


Ideas are never "bitchy", but people often are.


WWW
« Reply #51 on: Today at 06:38 PM »

lucifer Morningstar was a tool for God to indulge his power schemes

i always liked the idea that christ dying on the cross for our sins was actually worth nothing asd he knew he was the son of god and would be resserected to live at his fathers right arm

Try getting nailed to a cross sometime and then say its worth nothing. There was a reason Christ begged God to not let it happen. He was human, and scared, even thou he knew what was to come after.

OOH Christology!  Can I play?  Though this really reflects how threads get hijacted and turned into something else.  Should we bring it back round to Agnosticism?   BigGrin

Christ didn't die for our sins as any being evolved enough to be god would not need a childish sacrifice of blood, goats, or grain ... spilling blood has no mystical value.  Christ allowed himself to die, because humanity is the one that demands blood, not 'god'.  He sacrificed himself in a religious paradigm so humanity could 'feel' redeemed.  Omnipotent diety resurected him so we could get over ourselves.

Sa-tan, Lucifer, the accuser, is nothing more than the imperfect imaginings of humanity's concept of god arising in the collective subconcious and projected thru time and space.  Satan is us and the distance between our imaginings of what omnipotent diety may be as diminished by the reality of what such a being is.

How is that for a nice religious mythology?

Because I am an agnostic and accept that such things can never be empirically/experientially known ... I am freed to ponder limitless what-if's and myriad possibility.

 Kiss
Logged

He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked. The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.
irishkiwi
I Sleep Here !
*****

Karma: +96/-125
Offline Offline

Posts: 3865



« Reply #52 on: Today at 06:43 PM »

Ok, Christ didnt die for our sins, I guess you know better than God. How silly of me to ever doubt such an all knowing being such as yourself.
Logged

You have enemies?  Good.  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~Winston Churchill
siryesir
Addicted Boarder
*****

Karma: +47/-41
Offline Offline

Posts: 759


Ideas are never "bitchy", but people often are.


WWW
« Reply #53 on: Today at 06:46 PM »

Ok, Christ didnt die for our sins, I guess you know better than God. How silly of me to ever doubt such an all knowing being such as yourself.

LOL  You can be mental sometimes IK.  Tongue and cheek goes over your head.  As an agnostic, I am grounded in the paradigm that all of this is unknowable.  So how can I be right, wrong or know better than anyone regarding religion when I don't believe it is possible for anyone to be able to do that.  LOL

Logged

He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked. The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.
irishkiwi
I Sleep Here !
*****

Karma: +96/-125
Offline Offline

Posts: 3865



« Reply #54 on: Today at 06:51 PM »

The fact that all of "this" is unknowable by your measure makes you wrong.

And now I await you to lable me inflexable, intolerant, or whatever other phrase you care to use.
Logged

You have enemies?  Good.  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~Winston Churchill
Fradley
Nintendo!!
Addicted Boarder
*****

Karma: +23/-4
Offline Offline

Posts: 501


Tinkering with the fabric of existence.


« Reply #55 on: Today at 06:52 PM »

hey. noones wrong and no ones right. calm down. no need to get all frictionny. from my point of view any thing is good to consider
Logged

When the shit hits the fan, get a tent!
siryesir
Addicted Boarder
*****

Karma: +47/-41
Offline Offline

Posts: 759


Ideas are never "bitchy", but people often are.


WWW
« Reply #56 on: Today at 07:01 PM »

The fact that all of "this" is unknowable by your measure makes you wrong.

And now I await you to lable me inflexable, intolerant, or whatever other phrase you care to use.

Nope just religious.

Knowledge, knowing is something that is empirically provable.  You can put it under a microscope, poke it prod it, interact with it, show it to other people.  Knowledge is experiential.  Like many religious people, you are missusing the term.

The term you should use IK is belief.  As you can't go scratch off a piece of god and examine it, you can't know.

Belief, and its conjugations are the terms for talking about things someone feels emotively but can not prove empirically.  Read the church creeds, "I believe in God the father, the almighty, the maker of heaven and earth...."

I grew up thinking like you, was a missionary, planned to be a preacher.  Fortunately divinity saved me with my homosexuality.


Logged

He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked. The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.
irishkiwi
I Sleep Here !
*****

Karma: +96/-125
Offline Offline

Posts: 3865



« Reply #57 on: Today at 07:03 PM »

Yes I believe in God the father, the almighty, the maker of heaven and earth etc... however I know that Christ died for the sins of man and I know God exsists.
Logged

You have enemies?  Good.  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~Winston Churchill
siryesir
Addicted Boarder
*****

Karma: +47/-41
Offline Offline

Posts: 759


Ideas are never "bitchy", but people often are.


WWW
« Reply #58 on: Today at 07:13 PM »

Yes I believe in God the father, the almighty, the maker of heaven and earth etc... however I know that Christ died for the sins of man and I know God exsists.


Symantical arguments cannot be won.  You are free to use whatever words you wish, I just pointed out that the things you claim to 'know' you cannot by definition of the word know.  I can play the 8 year old game and run around calling purple things red to the dismay of everyone else, but the meaning of the word purple does not change because of that.

Knowledge is experiential.

Belief is perceptual.

As an example, you can have a chair sitting in a room that you have never sat in before and never seen anyone sit in before.  Prior to sitting in that chair, you can say I believe that chair will hold me and be logically true.  If you say you know that chair will hold you, you are committing a logical falicy.  If you go and actual sit in the chair, then and only then do you have the logical ability to say "I know that chair will hold me", because you can know it because knowledge is based on empirical experience.

Belief is the term that applies to non-verifiable, non-experiential, non-empirical perceptions, which unless you can bring me a piece of God, is all you can have about religious realities.
Logged

He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked. The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.
Fradley
Nintendo!!
Addicted Boarder
*****

Karma: +23/-4
Offline Offline

Posts: 501


Tinkering with the fabric of existence.


« Reply #59 on: Today at 07:18 PM »

Yes I believe in God the father, the almighty, the maker of heaven and earth etc... however I know that Christ died for the sins of man and I know God exsists.


you believe so hard you've fooled yourself into thinking that means knowing. (and i am happy for you that you have this belief, but its not for me though) the whole point in the word faith, is that its to believe in something without solid proof.

i guess with that definition, i have faith in other things
Logged

When the shit hits the fan, get a tent!
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.6 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
Moonraker design by Crip - Some images provided by sloopz.
Page created in 0.112 seconds with 17 queries.